CatmanV2
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(I guess they feel that is a match for the target demographic - personally I wouldn't know one end of a golf bat from another) .
Foolish! It's *cue*!
C
Fotoshoot new Ghibli plus nice sound
- Thread starter Danny
- Start date
Foolish! It's *cue*!
C
Emtee
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I went to see the Ghastli this evening, as they have one of the two(?) knocking around at the moment up at Greypaul Nottingham. The other(?) is the BF diesel that did the hill at Goodwood.
Now at this point I should confess I have been no fan of the car to date, so I write this from a sceptical point of view, but hopefully therefore an impartial point of view.
I have two gripes. The first is completely selfish and is borne from being a Maserati fan. I like Maserati because they're seldom seen and stand apart. The second related gripe, my major gripe, is because I think the design is safe, lazy and populist.
So I've set the 'scene'....
Apparently both are pre-production models built some considerable time ago and kept under wraps until now. Armed with this information it was evident when looking closely at the fit, as some of the panels and seams were slightly off, but only if you were really looking and I'm sure this will be sorted with the production run.
As you'll see from the photo's the car is black. Not the best colour to show it off, but for me it actually helped, as it softened some of the crease lines around the rear quarters that I have a real problem with. These same crease lines were conversely dwelt on by two other 'punters' (one a GT owner) also viewing the car. They thought them one of the cars best features, so it just goes to show how personal these things are. The GT owner had seen the BF car at Goodwood and thought it was far better in that colour, as it showed off the crease lines to their best. For me the three crease lines down the sides of the car are not resolved (well two of them). One arches above the rear door handle while the other drops below it, but it doesn't flow into the wheel arch, The third line lower down arcs up and does nothing, they both just stall. With that said the top crease runs beautifully into the rear light cluster, particularly when the daylights are on.
Dwelling on the daylights for a moment, these are sort of okay. They pander to the current vogues, but do it well. The front is meaningful, and the back looks like a squat Audi, which for the target audience is probably no bad thing.
As you'll see from the photo's, and true of pretty much all the line-up, the car does not sit well on 19" wheels. It also sits too high, though to be fair the wheels do fill out the arches. so spacers aren't absolutely necessary.
Going back to my comment on the 'squat' rear, I was surprised to like this a lot. The twin pipes are proportionally big and the whole thing hunkers down well. The proportions of body to cabin, from the rear, are spot on and in a pleasing way put me in mind of the previous Ghibli Cup. Sadly my hatred of the plethora of angles around the rear wasn't lessened, other than by the forgiving colour.
Lift the boot lid and it was a different story however. It's huge! and that's before you drop the rear seats. Maserati have pulled off a great job there. Overall the car looks quite small, but all the interior spaces are more than comfortable. For the cabin I refer back to the other 'punters' also taking a look at the car. Neither were small, indeed one of them was a big fella. One took up position in the drivers seat with the seat set to his liking whilst the other took a position in the back. More than adequate for both of them, and easily seen with the lovely pillarless doors open. Inside I take my hat off to Maserati. They've done a great job; all the surfaces are refined and overall it's classy and uncluttered but without feeling bland.
Under the bonnet things are az ze Germans would have it, if you like that sort of thing. I'm not a fan of a big bit of moulded plastic pretending to be a plenum, but the engine is set well back at least. A look through the front grill rewards you with what must be about 5 different radiators all fighting for breath, though like the GT I think the grill itself would benefit from feeling less plasticy.
So there you have my considered thoughts having consciously tried to analyse a car I don't like. Have I changed my opinion, specifically the two points mentioned above? well no I haven't, but with that said there is very much to like about the car. It's got that great big/small thing going on. I like the feeling that it's squatting down ready to pounce. It seems immensely useable, and from speaking to James, Maserati have worked ******* the finance deals available to make it competitive with the Deutche-wagons and also service prices will be comparable (though I doubt parts will be!)
Also from speaking to James... the biggest threat to the success of the new QP... the Ghibli! A couple of orders cancelled already to be swapped to the Ghibli. Not sure that's a good thing in the long run, but if Maserati are pinning their hopes for growth on the Ghibli then I doubt they'll be shedding a tear.
From my point of view the biggest plus point is shown in the picture below.
Fair enough, this will rise once specc'ed correctly, but hey, a brand new Maserati for less than £70K! Bargain! The sceptic in me wonders where the used prices will settle? They need to retain their residuals to avoid a dodgy second-hand reputation.
Maserati have set themselves a sales number around 3,000 units. On the one hand this in modest in the global scheme of things and so the best of luck to them, but on the other hand the biggest hurdle to tempting a company car driver bored with his BMW is sadly the new BMW. It's meant to be an awesome motor car. Time will tell whether the new Ghibli can be classed as awesome.
So to wrap things up by returning to my original gripes?..... well times change. I know Maserati need to sell units and as a result more Trident badged motor cars will share the road with mine. Heyhoo, it was nice whilst it lasted. As for the styling, well there's no change I'm afraid. I understand why the car looks like it does (well apart from that boot and the two crease lines). Maserati have been very thoughtful, methodical and have done their market research. I just wish they'd been less thoughtful and methodical and trusted the magic that brought us the QP, a car that hasn't aged, a car that has become iconic in it's class and a car that has been copied widely (yes you Jaguar). There is much to admire about the German approach; there isn't an engine or interior space that wouldn't benefit from a look in their back garden, but when it comes to the outside it has to be Italian flair all the way, something that the QP oozed, but for me is sadly lacking in the Ghibli. Surely it would have been easier to tempt drivers away from their boring Frauleins if the Italian Bella that lives next door was more of a looker, but hey, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Now at this point I should confess I have been no fan of the car to date, so I write this from a sceptical point of view, but hopefully therefore an impartial point of view.
I have two gripes. The first is completely selfish and is borne from being a Maserati fan. I like Maserati because they're seldom seen and stand apart. The second related gripe, my major gripe, is because I think the design is safe, lazy and populist.
So I've set the 'scene'....
Apparently both are pre-production models built some considerable time ago and kept under wraps until now. Armed with this information it was evident when looking closely at the fit, as some of the panels and seams were slightly off, but only if you were really looking and I'm sure this will be sorted with the production run.
As you'll see from the photo's the car is black. Not the best colour to show it off, but for me it actually helped, as it softened some of the crease lines around the rear quarters that I have a real problem with. These same crease lines were conversely dwelt on by two other 'punters' (one a GT owner) also viewing the car. They thought them one of the cars best features, so it just goes to show how personal these things are. The GT owner had seen the BF car at Goodwood and thought it was far better in that colour, as it showed off the crease lines to their best. For me the three crease lines down the sides of the car are not resolved (well two of them). One arches above the rear door handle while the other drops below it, but it doesn't flow into the wheel arch, The third line lower down arcs up and does nothing, they both just stall. With that said the top crease runs beautifully into the rear light cluster, particularly when the daylights are on.
Dwelling on the daylights for a moment, these are sort of okay. They pander to the current vogues, but do it well. The front is meaningful, and the back looks like a squat Audi, which for the target audience is probably no bad thing.
As you'll see from the photo's, and true of pretty much all the line-up, the car does not sit well on 19" wheels. It also sits too high, though to be fair the wheels do fill out the arches. so spacers aren't absolutely necessary.
Going back to my comment on the 'squat' rear, I was surprised to like this a lot. The twin pipes are proportionally big and the whole thing hunkers down well. The proportions of body to cabin, from the rear, are spot on and in a pleasing way put me in mind of the previous Ghibli Cup. Sadly my hatred of the plethora of angles around the rear wasn't lessened, other than by the forgiving colour.
Lift the boot lid and it was a different story however. It's huge! and that's before you drop the rear seats. Maserati have pulled off a great job there. Overall the car looks quite small, but all the interior spaces are more than comfortable. For the cabin I refer back to the other 'punters' also taking a look at the car. Neither were small, indeed one of them was a big fella. One took up position in the drivers seat with the seat set to his liking whilst the other took a position in the back. More than adequate for both of them, and easily seen with the lovely pillarless doors open. Inside I take my hat off to Maserati. They've done a great job; all the surfaces are refined and overall it's classy and uncluttered but without feeling bland.
Under the bonnet things are az ze Germans would have it, if you like that sort of thing. I'm not a fan of a big bit of moulded plastic pretending to be a plenum, but the engine is set well back at least. A look through the front grill rewards you with what must be about 5 different radiators all fighting for breath, though like the GT I think the grill itself would benefit from feeling less plasticy.
So there you have my considered thoughts having consciously tried to analyse a car I don't like. Have I changed my opinion, specifically the two points mentioned above? well no I haven't, but with that said there is very much to like about the car. It's got that great big/small thing going on. I like the feeling that it's squatting down ready to pounce. It seems immensely useable, and from speaking to James, Maserati have worked ******* the finance deals available to make it competitive with the Deutche-wagons and also service prices will be comparable (though I doubt parts will be!)
Also from speaking to James... the biggest threat to the success of the new QP... the Ghibli! A couple of orders cancelled already to be swapped to the Ghibli. Not sure that's a good thing in the long run, but if Maserati are pinning their hopes for growth on the Ghibli then I doubt they'll be shedding a tear.
From my point of view the biggest plus point is shown in the picture below.
Fair enough, this will rise once specc'ed correctly, but hey, a brand new Maserati for less than £70K! Bargain! The sceptic in me wonders where the used prices will settle? They need to retain their residuals to avoid a dodgy second-hand reputation.
Maserati have set themselves a sales number around 3,000 units. On the one hand this in modest in the global scheme of things and so the best of luck to them, but on the other hand the biggest hurdle to tempting a company car driver bored with his BMW is sadly the new BMW. It's meant to be an awesome motor car. Time will tell whether the new Ghibli can be classed as awesome.
So to wrap things up by returning to my original gripes?..... well times change. I know Maserati need to sell units and as a result more Trident badged motor cars will share the road with mine. Heyhoo, it was nice whilst it lasted. As for the styling, well there's no change I'm afraid. I understand why the car looks like it does (well apart from that boot and the two crease lines). Maserati have been very thoughtful, methodical and have done their market research. I just wish they'd been less thoughtful and methodical and trusted the magic that brought us the QP, a car that hasn't aged, a car that has become iconic in it's class and a car that has been copied widely (yes you Jaguar). There is much to admire about the German approach; there isn't an engine or interior space that wouldn't benefit from a look in their back garden, but when it comes to the outside it has to be Italian flair all the way, something that the QP oozed, but for me is sadly lacking in the Ghibli. Surely it would have been easier to tempt drivers away from their boring Frauleins if the Italian Bella that lives next door was more of a looker, but hey, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Andyk
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Well done Miles, great thread....I reall need to see the car......I saw a picture in EVO of a black Ghibli on the road from the back...The one thing that struck me that hadn't before was that it couldn't be anything other than a Maerati..It sort of had the DNA.....I hated the back when I first saw it but now I love it. I think it has taken time to take in the car and it's lines and to see the Maserati DNA as well.
The interior for me is just brilliant (love the brown leather on that car).....and I can fully understand why the Ghibli would take sales from the Audi QP...I still do not get the shape or what they have done to the drive. Its taken an individual and turned it in to an ordinary one and all for £110k...Plus all ou really get extra is more space and a bigger car...oh and a V8 which is no quicker.......Unless ou have to have the looks of the QP I see no reason to have one of the better looking Ghibli plus save yourself at least £50K..but thats just me.
The interior for me is just brilliant (love the brown leather on that car).....and I can fully understand why the Ghibli would take sales from the Audi QP...I still do not get the shape or what they have done to the drive. Its taken an individual and turned it in to an ordinary one and all for £110k...Plus all ou really get extra is more space and a bigger car...oh and a V8 which is no quicker.......Unless ou have to have the looks of the QP I see no reason to have one of the better looking Ghibli plus save yourself at least £50K..but thats just me.
mowlas
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To add to the reviews above, I went to the Seven Notes event in London last night where I got to check out the Ghibli in person as well as the new B&W sound system in a new QP6.
My overall impression of the Ghibli is that it has a masculine design elegance from the front and front side elevations. The rear was as disappointing as it appears in the pictures - so generic and soulless that it seriously dents the credibility of the car's premium price point. The overall proportions allow the design to be far better resolved than the new QP6 which, frankly, looks like a lumbering awkward sibling.
The rear leg room is ridiculous for a car in this price bracket and not just "a few centimetres less than the QP5'" as some have reported - the rear is more 3-series territory in both space and appointment.
The front cabin feels more compact than the QP6 but is all the better for it as it gives it a more exciting, sportier feel. The Ghibli is definitely more of a driver's car compared to the QP6 which tries to balance its attention between front and rear. The instrumentation clusters feel modern and sporty. The entertainment system is reliably counter-intuitive and looks like the least time was spent here. However it is now only one generation behind contemporary technology.
We have to remember that current QP5 and GT owners will look differently at this car than the Ghibli's and QP6's intended core market. For QP5 owners, I believe the Ghibli is a definite trade-down in terms of styling, soul, verve and prestige. For the Ghibli's real intended target market, it will be a chance to trade-up to an ultra-cool, prestigious brand. For these folks I fear the novelty may be short lived as there is not a lot other than styling to differentiate this car. Maserati, to their (IMHO) monumental detriment, have eschewed the styling and 'passion' principals that marked their revival with the QP5 and GT. A foolhardy decision. Whether they are capable of reconnecting to their 'soul' in subsequent facelifts, versions and other models remains to be seen.
However, if they do not then I cannot see the initial flutter in sales volumes being something sustained in a world where their new competitors (BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Jaguar) are much better at everything that they are currently not. It is a huge mistake not to continue to differentiate on styling and passion.
I would not buy a Ghibli as I would feel like I would be trading down. I would not buy a QP6 because it would feel like I was leaving the brand all together.
My parting thought is that I do hope Maserati get their design balls back... it will serve them better in the long term.
P.S. the B&W system did sound pretty good in the QP6 but I wasn't blown away by it.
My overall impression of the Ghibli is that it has a masculine design elegance from the front and front side elevations. The rear was as disappointing as it appears in the pictures - so generic and soulless that it seriously dents the credibility of the car's premium price point. The overall proportions allow the design to be far better resolved than the new QP6 which, frankly, looks like a lumbering awkward sibling.
The rear leg room is ridiculous for a car in this price bracket and not just "a few centimetres less than the QP5'" as some have reported - the rear is more 3-series territory in both space and appointment.
The front cabin feels more compact than the QP6 but is all the better for it as it gives it a more exciting, sportier feel. The Ghibli is definitely more of a driver's car compared to the QP6 which tries to balance its attention between front and rear. The instrumentation clusters feel modern and sporty. The entertainment system is reliably counter-intuitive and looks like the least time was spent here. However it is now only one generation behind contemporary technology.
We have to remember that current QP5 and GT owners will look differently at this car than the Ghibli's and QP6's intended core market. For QP5 owners, I believe the Ghibli is a definite trade-down in terms of styling, soul, verve and prestige. For the Ghibli's real intended target market, it will be a chance to trade-up to an ultra-cool, prestigious brand. For these folks I fear the novelty may be short lived as there is not a lot other than styling to differentiate this car. Maserati, to their (IMHO) monumental detriment, have eschewed the styling and 'passion' principals that marked their revival with the QP5 and GT. A foolhardy decision. Whether they are capable of reconnecting to their 'soul' in subsequent facelifts, versions and other models remains to be seen.
However, if they do not then I cannot see the initial flutter in sales volumes being something sustained in a world where their new competitors (BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Jaguar) are much better at everything that they are currently not. It is a huge mistake not to continue to differentiate on styling and passion.
I would not buy a Ghibli as I would feel like I would be trading down. I would not buy a QP6 because it would feel like I was leaving the brand all together.
My parting thought is that I do hope Maserati get their design balls back... it will serve them better in the long term.
P.S. the B&W system did sound pretty good in the QP6 but I wasn't blown away by it.
mowlas
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True, there is a very good chance that the Ghibli will be a great car to drive. However even if it were, I am not sure it has the full Maserati package...
No question it is a better looking and resolved (design wise) car than the QP6.
Andyk
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No I do agree that it may no feel 100% Maserati as yours ot the GT feels.......but I suppose this is not the first time we have seen a twin turbo V6 in a Maserati so sort of is the heritage.....Ah well at least if they sell loads if will give them more money to throw into a Gransport or something like that,
I actually find him quite inconsistent certainly with regard to the GranTurismo over the years.
dickygrace
www.richardgracecars.co.uk
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Just had chance to catch up on this thread. I went to GP to see it today and have to agree with everything Miles said, my sentiments exactly but wouldn't have been quite so well put as our very own linguistic automotive journalist put it.