Formula 1 Qualifying F1

[BennyD]

Yep. Max went deep with no intention of leaving room.

That appeals to the female viewers. You wouldn't understand.

 

[midlifecrisis]

I know almost nothing about F1, but having watched this by chance, it seems that the rules says that when the safety car is out, you can let the lapped cars through, so that they go all the way round and join the back of the pack. The rule does not seem to explicitly say ALL the lapped cars. A key question is why does that rule exist? Is it just a convenient opportunity to resolve the general problem of slower (lapped) cars being in the way, while the safety car is causing a general delay?

If that is the intent, then how it is done is just a matter of convenience, not an absolute requirement. And the only cars going past that mattered were the ones between the No1 and the No2 placed cars. So to take the time to let them ALL through (not explicitly required, and nor relevant to the outcome) would have just delayed the end of the safety car period and advantaged Hamilton. But to not let any of them through, while the recovery was still going on, would have been not to follow the rule at all, and this would also have advantaged Hamilton. To let the ones in the gap through certainly advantaged Verstappen, but only given the state of his tyres, which is a team tactics issue, not a rules issue, so he got lucky and won fairly.

One solution for the future would be to say that if the safety car is active in the last 3 laps of the race, an extra 3 laps are added to make the finish less arbitrary.

It also seems really unfair that when the safety car comes out all the gaps between the cars are closed up. But nobody seems to moan about that.

Like you, I never understood the reason why lapped cars could overtake the safety car. Damon Hill explained it as a 'free' blue flag or to get them get them out of the way from 1st and 2nd. The reason why they held back for a while on this was because there were still Marshalls on the track clearing up Latifi's mess and the lapped cars would be doing race pace to get round to rejoin the back of the pack. Not a safe situation.
So once Masi was content that the Marshalls were safe, he released the lapped cars that were between Hamilton and Verstappen.

That is as far as I understand it.


On the point of changing tyres during the Red Flag of the Saudi race, that is another safety point. The crashed cars would have released a lot of carbon fibre splinters and there's a risk of cars having these splinters embedded in the tyres and if they went racing on these tyres, there's a risk of a blowout.

Again, that is as far as it was explained on Sky F1 on Friday.

 

[MarkMas]

I've read the rules now, and it does seem like they are clear that you do have to either (a) let all the lapped cars go by, or (b) not let any of them go by.

If (a) the race would have ended with the safety car still on the track, giving Hamilton the win (which is a bit dull). If (b) Verstappen would have had to get past about 4 lapped cars to get to Hamilton (which is what the rules were trying to avoid).

It seems to me like the Race Director applied the rules with their practical intent; trying to do what option (a) permits, but still allowing for a racing finish. But maybe he should have just stayed at Barça.

 

[midlifecrisis]

I've read the rules now, and it does seem like they are clear that you do have to either (a) let all the lapped cars go by, or (b) not let any of them go by.

If (a) the race would have ended with the safety car still on the track, giving Hamilton the win (which is a bit dull). If (b) Verstappen would have had to get past about 4 lapped cars to get to Hamilton (which is what the rules were trying to avoid).

It seems to me like the Race Director applied the rules with their practical intent; trying to do what option (a) permits, but still allowing for a racing finish. But maybe he should have just stayed at Barça.

Barça have their issues too...they're skint and just dropped out of the Champions' League so hence him going to PSG during the summer...

 

[Gazcw]

 

[BennyD]

I've read the rules now, and it does seem like they are clear that you do have to either (a) let all the lapped cars go by, or (b) not let any of them go by.

If (a) the race would have ended with the safety car still on the track, giving Hamilton the win (which is a bit dull). If (b) Verstappen would have had to get past about 4 lapped cars to get to Hamilton (which is what the rules were trying to avoid).

It seems to me like the Race Director applied the rules with their practical intent; trying to do what option (a) permits, but still allowing for a racing finish. But maybe he should have just stayed at Barça.

Whilst I applaud your interpretation, it shows exactly what a sh!tshow F1 is. Too many rules, not enough common sense and common decency. The whole thing is fubar and the only recourse is to fcking lawyers. The whole fcking thing is broken, so start again without f*cking Spams.

 

[Sam McGoo]

I wanted Hamilton to win and get the record as I think he deserves it. He has been one of the top drivers on the grid for so long and showed his talent time and time again in all situations. I also think it might have been his last Championship win, due to the young talent on the scene and the rule changes.
He was robbed today.

I also understand why some people don't like him.

Max is undoubtedly one of the other best drivers on the grid and I've always liked him. His driving is exciting, but this season his desperate lunges and stubbornness to leave any space for anyone else has let him down, as has his childish attitude at times.

To me the only decision that might have seemed fair to both sides, would have been to keep the cars where they were and bring the safety car in. The lapped cars would have got the blue flag and got out of the way fairly soon and likely Max would have caught Hamilton for the last couple of corners giving the 'required' excitement.

I actually feel sorry for Max. I think when it all settles down it will feel a bit hollow. Only a die-hard Max fan will think that championship wasn't handed to him.

Lewis's maturity in the congratulations to max and team, and the fact he didn't moan about the decisions in the post race interviews has gained him some respect I think. You can guarantee that Max wouldn't have behaved the same if he had been in that situation.

 

[outrun]

I bet Netflix are loving this.

At first, I was confused watching the race as so much was going on. I thought that Mercedes were robbed as Lewis clearly dominated the race. However, now that I've had a chance to see it unfold, I think it's just the rub of the green. It happens when there are safety car incidents, it has to as the safety protocols demand that the marshalls and so on that have to enter the track are safe. In this case, they managed to clear the Latifi car quick enough to get back to racing, the rub of green was that Verstappen didn't have track position and could therefore stop for new tyres.

The only contentious thing, upon reflection, is Masi letting only the cars between the leaders pass under the safety car. However, this is at the discretion of the race director and they have all harped on about letting them race etc etc. Importantly, even if Masi had let all lapped cars pass, this would have made no difference as they pass under safety car conditions so they would have passed before the race restarted anyway.

It's very harsh on Mercedes and Hamilton but this is what happens in racing. There are countless examples of good fortune favouring someone in F1. There have been several this season alone. It's just what happens. Lando should have won and his team didn't bring him in for wet tyres as when Hamilton came in. He lost because it started raining. It's racing.

I'm not a big fan of either Max or Lewis but I am pleased that someone else won for a change.

Now on to next year, I hope the major rule changes shuffle the pack and we see the likes of Ferrari and McLaren get themselves more in the mix.

 

[outrun]

Oh, and the proper outcome here is that the FIA need to give themselves a drive through penalty, 10 place grid penalty and 6 points on their super licence.

Because they are at fault, not the teams, or the drivers.

The box office nature of F1 now since the US owners and Netflix got involved means that they are allowing broadcast of team radio and promoting controversy because it's exciting for viewers. We need to remember that it's now not really a sport, it's a massive business. Neither driver deserved to lose but one of them had to. And now there are a million tweets and a million column inches dedicated to this story. In business, that's a win.

Max and Lewis will probably share a private jet together back to their homes in Monaco. Our hearts should bleed.

Charlie Whiting would have solved this behind the scenes before it ever happened. Michael Masi isn't strong enough and has lost respect so Horner and Wolff feel they can badger him. Whiting would have sent them packing ages ago.

I wonder if they will ever find Masi's body? Bet he drives an Audi.

 

[gb-gta]

Thing is, under the normal ‘rules’, all lapped cars go past the SC and line up in order behind the leader, before the SC comes in. We’ve all seen that before.
Even then max would still have gained a huge advantage over Lewis due to newer tyres, and having had his 11 second deficit reduced to zero, fine, it’s been like that for ages.

However, he would also have to have dealt with a Ferrari and mclaren slipstreaming right up his chuff on the restart trying to pass him for position. He was protected from this worry from behind by masi just letting only the cars ‘in the way’ past and pulling the SC in before they were barely out of sight, never mind letting them get round and onto the back of verstappen for the restart. That is unprecedented.

Plus, all the other drivers/teams could complain were not given the same chance to improve their position in the same way because of this, just max.

I wonder what is going to happen with people who had money bet on the race? Will bookies even take bets on F1 in the future when race directors can dictate the result how they please?

 

[outrun]

Thing is, under the normal ‘rules’, all lapped cars go past the SC and line up in order behind the leader, before the SC comes in. We’ve all seen that before.
Even then max would still have gained a huge advantage over Lewis due to newer tyres, and having had his 11 second deficit reduced to zero, fine, it’s been like that for ages.

However, he would also have to have dealt with a Ferrari and mclaren slipstreaming right up his chuff on the restart trying to pass him for position. He was protected from this worry from behind by masi just letting only the cars ‘in the way’ past and pulling the SC in before they were barely out of sight, never mind letting them get round and onto the back of verstappen for the restart. That is unprecedented.

Plus, all the other drivers/teams could complain were not given the same chance to improve their position in the same way because of this, just max.

I wonder what is going to happen with people who had money bet on the race? Will bookies even take bets on F1 in the future when race directors can dictate the result how they please?

The bookies never lose. Of course they will.

 

[Andyk]

While the stewards said computer said no .. Not over yet… Again not a surprise.

 

[philw696]

 

[Swedish Paul]

Thing is, under the normal ‘rules’, all lapped cars go past the SC and line up in order behind the leader, before the SC comes in. We’ve all seen that before.
Even then max would still have gained a huge advantage over Lewis due to newer tyres, and having had his 11 second deficit reduced to zero, fine, it’s been like that for ages.

However, he would also have to have dealt with a Ferrari and mclaren slipstreaming right up his chuff on the restart trying to pass him for position. He was protected from this worry from behind by masi just letting only the cars ‘in the way’ past and pulling the SC in before they were barely out of sight, never mind letting them get round and onto the back of verstappen for the restart. That is unprecedented.

Plus, all the other drivers/teams could complain were not given the same chance to improve their position in the same way because of this, just max.

I wonder what is going to happen with people who had money bet on the race? Will bookies even take bets on F1 in the future when race directors can dictate the result how they please?

There wouldn’t have been any disadvantage to Lewis if all the cars had passed because the last lap would then have been under the safety car. Tyres would have made no difference. But even if we had one final lap with all the cars passed, the cars behind Max would also had an opportunity to pass Max. It could have been carnage.

 

[ChrissGT]

Everyone is now tumbling over eachother over this incident. However, there have been so many questionable calls. There are so much situations you can discuss this season. They both drove hard, fought hard and are in total different league.
I dont think anyone can say Max doesn't deserve this title. But likewise Hamilton and Mercedes have been mighty this last part of the season.

 

[Andyk]

Lewis and Max have both done a great job this year and kept it alive…Take that away for a moment and it is Massi and his lot that need to take a look at each for the decisions they have made in this last race just to make the last lap exciting.

Their decision yesterday reminds me of when me and my mates played football as boys. 6 nil up someone got hurt so stopped the game and then when we started to play again it was OK next goal wins… I feel a bit if golden goal going on with Massi’s decision.

In fact the more you look at it this was like them doing that in a premiership game….

 

[Oneball]

FIA presidential elections are this week to replace JT. Choices are from two of the current Vice Presidents.

FIA, MSA and other sport governing body lawyer

or

The greatest rally driver the Middle East has produced.

Wonder who’s going to get the nod???

 

[Phil H]

What a farce. Can you think of another sport where the result doesn't matter a toss and it's all about the the theatrics? Yep, F1 is now the motorsport version of WWF wrestling! Bring on the spandex and masks!

Although the debate will continue, the one certainty is that the sport has been demeaned in the eyes of F1 fans, and in the years ahead Verstappen may come to regret the manner in which he was 'awarded' the title. I do hope that FW is wrong about stage management, but unless there's a radical rethink at the FIA it doesn't look too promising in that respect.

 

[GTVGEOFF]

Max didn't win, he was gifted it.
You have a set of rules and that is what you play by. You don't change them to advantage one side and disadvantage the other. Mercedes made their decisions based on those rules and then had the rug pulled from underneath them.
I have followed F1 for many years and am sad to say if it is now to be run in this way, "I'm out"

 

[ChrissGT]

Although the debate will continue, the one certainty is that the sport has been demeaned in the eyes of F1 fans, and in the years ahead Verstappen may come to regret the manner in which he was 'awarded' the title. I do hope that FW is wrong about stage management, but unless there's a radical rethink at the FIA it doesn't look too promising in that respect.

Max has not been awarded the title no? He raced hard all season and has been very dominant at times. He was in the right place at the right time. He does not control what race director decided. You just got a bit of luck when he most needed it. The message from Masi to Toto was very clear, its a motor race.

BTW i would have thought FIA would give lewis a 5 second penalty for not parking on the straight after the race