Engine oil level increasing

[spacecadet]

Hi,

this is my first post here, but I'm a regular reader since 1 and a half years, when I bought my Ghibli. It's one of the first MY94s currently with 144000 kms on the clock.

I have some issues I would like to clear up now (without any background in the area) that I got quite familiar with the car. The most urgent ones seems to be that the engine oil is increasing. The oil was changed (Selenia Racing) 400 kms ago, when I precisely set the level to the MAX mark. Since then it increased by 2 cms. In the first year there was also no level decrease, and definitely not a such big increase. The coolant level is slightly above the LEVEL mark, so I don't think that is leaking into the oil. Which makes me think that fuel is finding its way there somehow. On the wall of the oil filler tube there is some darker brownish sludge, which smells like some burnt substance.

Have you every experienced something similar? How should is start the tracing? Could it be because of a bad fuel-air mixture or some timing problem? I have no CEL issues (which is not entirely true, sometimes when the engine is hot and going down on a steep hill). The lambda sensors probably need to be replaced (I have to check the papers, but they are over 70k kms), based on the workshop manual, the spark plugs too, but last year when checked they had a healthy colour (and I didn't drive too much since then). I don't think there was a valve clearance done ever, and the timing chains also weren't changed. What's the lifetime of those?

Thanks

 

[jluis]

If it's unburned fuel the oil should stink to gas.
You could be having a cylinder misfiring causing fuel to slip trough the cylinder to the crankcase

It's also possible that it's a leaky injector causing fuel to drip into the engine while the engine is switched off and the fuel rail still has pressure.

 

[hodroyd]

I would imagine that the oil would start to get less thick and smell if fuel was getting in to the oil feed..??

 

[conaero]

Head gasket?

Has the oil filler cap got mayonnaise oil on it?

 

[allandwf]

If water had got into the oil it would look like coffee! Are you sure it was empty, or the correct reading, when filled? Did you just fill it to the mark, or put in an exact quantity?

 

[spacecadet]

Oil filler cap is bone dry. Only the tube has chocolate smudge further down.

I took it to the mechanic for the oil change, saw the oil was emptied, then 6l put back in. But at home I rechecked and was overfilled, let it cool overnight then sucked down 0.5l until it hit the mark.

What's the advisable time to change the timing chains? I was thinking about doing it this winter (though my mechanic thinks it's enough when it already gives a noise), which would be a good opportunity to check the state of the heads I guess.

 

[spacecadet]

(sorry, just realized my previous replies were gone, the "Reply to Thread" button is too temping to push)

I think it smells like fuel, not sure, but it definitely has the same smell as my clothes after a longer drive. And feels also less thick, because yesterday it always made a drip immediately after pulling out the dipstick, which never happened before.

 

[jluis]

If it's thining and smells like fuel you should stop driving the car with that oil because that will reduce it's lubricating capabilities and will cause excessive tear and wear on the engine internals.

 

[spacecadet]

After 400 kms should it still smell and feel like new? At least I can compare to that.

 

[jluis]

After 400 kms should it still smell and feel like new? At least I can compare to that.

That would depend on the engine and it's condition.
I changed on mine and after 200/300 km it's like new and I have difficulties seeing the oil level because the oil is still so clear.

 

[spacecadet]

Hmm, I have to check it at home... but it was already really dark in the bottle when sucking down after the change. Not good news all in all, as I expected.

 

[jluis]

Hmm, I have to check it at home... but it was already really dark in the bottle when sucking down after the change. Not good news all in all, as I expected.

Not necessarily bad news.
Engines with high mileage will not have crystal clear oil even after a change.

 

[Gp79]

I would take an oil sample and send it off for analysis (search web for companies)

If water level is unchanged, filler cap is clear of mayonnaise you would think head gasket ok, so can only be fuel entering the sump

take it these are not dry sump so level is checked with engine stopped for at least 10 minutes?

 

[chad5k1]

By the way, overfilled oil is not a bad thing on the ghibli. The Cup Race cars were overfilled by the best part of a litre to reduce oil surge issues. We have run our track ghibli overfilled for about 8 years.
Of course if your oil level is raising, that is a different issue and you need to find out what is going on.
In terms of the chains, they should be inspected regularly and changed when they get noisy.

 

[spacecadet]

Good to know that overfilling is not an issue. Did you also overfill it with around a liter? On inspecting you mean by valve cover off right?

Gp79, thanks for the tip, didn't know there are services like oil analysis, but found some companies. Will ask around.

 

[Gp79]

If you live on the coast a marine diesel service centre can probably help you out, they will have a contract for this analysis.

Send a sample of new oil off as well so you can get meaningful results.

 

[spacecadet]

I live in the middle of the Continent, so no coast here, unfortunately.

But there are some (bad) news about the situation. In the end I didn't ask for oil analysis, because the oil issue became pretty clear based on the smell and the viscosity also felt bad even by touching (blotter spot test also showed the same). So we did a compression pressure test and got 6 bars, except on cylinder 2 and 5 where it's 5.5 bars. This is really bad compared to the expected 8 bars, and a leak check revealed 60% and 70% leak. The air could be felt coming out at the dipstick's pipe, so it seems pretty clear that the block is shoot. If I'm lucky only the rings, but i'm expecting that it's the liners and the pistons too.

Although I have felt the car getting weaker lately, still based on the above numbers I wouldn't have expected the current performance. In this situation the plan is to do a total overhaul as things have to be disassembled fully, so overhaul the heads and turbos too. Winter is coming so there will be time, though I feel quite bummed, having this happened only after 1 year.

I also have an option to buy a used stripped AM496 with ~120k kms locally, for less then 1k EUR but I'm not sure that it would help anything in the process. As it's also high on kms I don't know what could be used from it. I want this to be done without shortcuts which could bite back later.

Any opinion on this? Also was here anybody doing an overhaul like this? It would be helpful to chat about options, what can be machined, etc. Are parts still easily available or I have to look here and there and collect everything slowly?

 

[safrane]

So is this caused by end float?.

I would replace the engine with a tested on rather than spend time trying to fix a spoilt one.

 

[spacecadet]

No idea about the cause yet. I though end float is mostly an issue for the 3200 GT. I know I had a worn clutch release bearing because it was rattling from time to time. That couldn't cause end float issues, could it?

Getting a replacement engine is also an option, but I don't know if I can find a trusted one with low milage. It's also a question what exactly is inside of this engine. It will be opened sometime in december.

 

[BennyD]

This all sounds a bit strange; I would expect to see plumes of blue smoke behind the car if the bores were that shot. Also, if the bores are that shot, the oil level would be dropping rather than rising. IMO, the lack of compression is more likely to be valves or, more likely, head gasket if you can feel compression coming out through the dipstick. Just a thought.