Coolant

[JimT]

Hi all.

Had my coolant changed and noticed its red.
The car had blue last time.
Does it matter? Or it ts the coolant just dyed for marketing purposes?

Thanks

 

[midlifecrisis]

Hi all.

Had my coolant changed and noticed its red.
The car had blue last time.
Does it matter? Or it ts the coolant just dyed for marketing purposes?

Thanks

It's dyed so you don't drink it. It's also down to what it's made of. Red is ethylene glycol based, which uses Organic Acid Inhibitor Technology (OAT) . Blue is Monoethylene Glycol based that does not contain nitrates,amines or phosphates so will corrode the aluminum block. Green is used mainly for diesels...I think...yellow is just suspicious.

 

[JimT]

Thanks for info.
So what are we thinking it should be for a granturismo?

 

[conaero]

QP and GT is blue. You will need to drain it (bung on side of rad at the bottom) flush with water and refill with blue 60/40 water

 

[JimT]

Bugger!! red no good presumably? Will it do damage? Been in since December.
Had the mot and the garage changed it as they tested it and said it had lost its strength.
They deal with these sort of cars so I assumed it was OK.
Was ok double checking. Bloodyhell!!

 

[conaero]

Just flush it out, do not mix them, that will turn to jelly.

I put in 4L coolant and 3L water

The bung is plastic so it’s not tightened just turn it till it resists. Any harder and it will strip.check it dies not leak

 

[JimT]

Ok thanks.
Pleased I checked.

 

[conaero]

Which garage did it?

 

[Zep]

It should be said that colour doesn’t nessesarily mean chemistry. Glycoshell Longlife is the factory fill and it is blue. It is a monoethylene glycol OAT antifreeze to CUNA NC 956-16. Paraflu Up is a monoethylene glycol OAT antifreeze to CUNA NC 956-16, but it’s red. So it’s not a slam dunk that it’s the wrong stuff.

If you aren’t sure then the sensible way is to drain and flush, then put the correct type (not colour) in.

Almost all antifreeze is monoethylene glycol based, sometimes shortened to just Ethylene Glycol. Where it gets sludgy is when you mix IAT (Inorganic Acid Tech) and OAT (Organic Acid Tech) which is very much to be avoided.

 

[happydaze]

Why not go back to whoever did the change, and find out if is the correct coolant or not? If they can show that it is correct, fine. If they cannot, then ask them (nicely) to drain and flush the system, and add the correct coolant.

As Zep says, colour doesn't always mean everything. A bit like people...

 

[JimT]

Thanks guys

Spoke to garage.
Very helpful indeed.
They only put 2 litres in. So my mistake there. Which is strange as its red.
Would have thought it would be more purple / blueish still.

As long as specs are the same them all good.
They have contacted the supplier more more info.
Not fair to name and blame.
Will update when know more.

 

[jasst]

My GS had a purple ish fluid when I bought it, as I had to fit a new rad I flushed it and filled with VW G13 spec as I had some, this only requires changing every 5 years which to my mind was a bonus as opposed to changing the blue stuff every 2 years.

 

[strictly]

It should be said that colour doesn’t nessesarily mean chemistry. Glycoshell Longlife is the factory fill and it is blue. It is a monoethylene glycol OAT antifreeze to CUNA NC 956-16. Paraflu Up is a monoethylene glycol OAT antifreeze to CUNA NC 956-16, but it’s red. So it’s not a slam dunk that it’s the wrong stuff.

If you aren’t sure then the sensible way is to drain and flush, then put the correct type (not colour) in.

Almost all antifreeze is monoethylene glycol based, sometimes shortened to just Ethylene Glycol. Where it gets sludgy is when you mix IAT (Inorganic Acid Tech) and OAT (Organic Acid Tech) which is very much to be avoided.

Zep, I'm quite interested in your analysis. I agree that the spec is more important than the colour, it looks like there are 7 different coolants from rock oil kool guard which meet CUNA 956-16, but I'm not totally sure on which is right....can you take a look? Prices on ebay seem to be £30 to £50 for 5 litres but I've not searched properly hard for a specific type or where to find it cheaper. I figure best to narrow it down first.

See picture and link

Link here to pdf.

Ps this is for my 2011 GT, my current coolant is green and according to the last maserati dealer invoice it was glycoshell....yet I read they stopped doing that around 10 or more years ago so I don't believe the invoice

 

[strictly]

I'm going to add to my post above, read that first....

So the kool guard Meg...its blue and is meets cuna 956-16, it is also phosphate and nitrite free, but is apparently IAT which based on the above is exactly what we don't want...so if that's true. Then being blue, meeting cuna 956-16 and being meg is not a slam dunk either

Now my head is spinning. Am I reading it wrong? I'm going to re read the glycoshell technical data sheet and start from there

 

[Zep]

Yes. The requirement is that it is OAT. As I said before, nearly all of them are MEG.

To my read (YMMV), the second and third ones are compliant.

Don’t over complicate it, go for something that meets the requirement and doesn’t have extra stuff, like “hybrid” or “nitrated”. Or go for the Paraflu and be done with it.

 

[strictly]

Yes. The requirement is that it is OAT. As I said before, nearly all of them are MEG.

To my read (YMMV), the second and third ones are compliant.

Don’t over complicate it, go for something that meets the requirement and doesn’t have extra stuff, like “hybrid” or “nitrated”. Or go for the Paraflu and be done with it.

Ok thanks!

One more question and yes I am overthinking it, but I plan to keep my GT forever.

Aldrousvoice states to mix with deionised water. See picture. Link below

https://aldousvoice.com/2014/03/15/ferrari-360-f430-coolant-change-using-vacuum/

Valvoline zerex g05 seems popular with the ferrari lot. Reading about it, it says that the ready to use versions is pretty mixed with deionised water, but the concentrated version should be mixed with either demineralised or tap water. Also see picture. Also see link below.

https://www.valvolineglobal.com/en/g-05-antifreeze-coolant/

now I've seen lots of debates on this, so I thought I would just ask your opinion and those of others if there are any.

I have actually only ever used tap water, but these have been cars I really could not car much about. My Maserati GT gets the love.

 

[Zep]

To help lets define what these things mean.

De-ionised water is water which has had ions removed through an Ion Exchange Process
De-mineralised water is water which has had minerals (trace metals, trace salts etc) removed through an Ion Exchange Process.
Distilled water is water which has been purified by evaporation and then condensed in a clean environment.

It should be noted that the above says that the pre-mix uses de-ionised water, but this is probably because this is a process they use to ensure consistency and long shelf life in the factory. That they are happy for it to be mixed with tap water from concentrate suggests that they are not concerned about trace elements in use.

One note on tap water. It tends to contain a lot of dissolved air through the pumping and filtering processes it goes through. In a closed system (like a large building air con system or your central heating) this air falls out of solution over time, which is why you have to bleed your radiators occasionally and also why you need inhibitor and biocides (which are in your antifreeze), because the oxygen in that air promotes corrosion in ferrous metals and bacterial growth (Legionella etc). Once this oxygen is gone, it doesn't come back, but on a regularly topped up system it can persist. This, to my mind, is really the only meaningful difference between tap water and DI water in this application.

But you could fill your car with tap water and glycol and have absolutely no issues hundreds of times, because it really doesn't make any difference.

Would I use de-ionised water when doing a complete replacement? Probably, if I had some. Would I top up with a tap water / glycol mix and not lose any sleep over it, ever? Yes.

You are def in the massively overthinking it section now, may I suggest a cup of horlicks and a good book?

 

[conaero]

FYI I have only used concentrate and tap water and have done hundreds over the past 5 years and never had an issue. The QP/GT is changed at every service (every 2 years) don't stress over it.

 

[strictly]

OK thanks, indeed a good book and some horlicks might be a good idea.

I have taken the above on board, indeed i will not lose sleep on using tap water. I always have. I now also know BASF incidentally also state deinonised water.

EDIT i have added something at the end and 2 posts down. Time for a beer.

For the coolant itself, I have settled on comma xstream G48, which is readily available as a 5L concentrate for about £25. I will explain my rationale for anyone who is interested. If so, get your horlicks ready!

Basically the glycoshell has been confirmed as always being BASF glysantin g48 which you can read in the link below (or see picture). Both blue green, but not that the dye matters

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/refilling-coolant-f430.615152/page-2

If you Google glysantin 48, and then find and read the technical data sheet, we can see it is low silicates and is actually a HOAT. Not that i knew what that was yesterday!

If we now go to the glycoshell TDS we can read the words low silicates and hybrid, so really it is also a HOAT and that matches with the information above that it is really is BASF glysantin G48 in the bottle. Picture and Datasheet of glycoshell if you want to see for yourself.

https://expertsincarcare.com/wp-con...h/TDS/TDS-Shell-GlycoShell-50-Pre-Diluted.pdf

if we now "Google" comma xstream G48, we can read it is basically BASF glysantin g48, this is written on both the bottle and the on technical datasheet as well....

BASF glysantin g48 is only ferrari recommended, versus the BASF glysantin G30 which is no silicate OAT but is ferrari approved from 2010 and also maserati recommend (but not approved)

So really we could also start taking about G30....but I'm happy enough with G48. I did find basf literature recommending G30 from 2005, which i have added, but everything else says 2010

Incidentally g30 you can buy at halfords, again it says on the bottle that it is BASF glysantin G30. 2L of concentrate is £12

EDIT...see 2 posts after this. I have based the G48 on the information in another forum and the hybrid glycoshell i found....but there is also a glycoshell which is not a hybrid, and that is a match for G30.

At the end of the day as long as the old coolant is flushed out I'm sure either the G48 or G30 is fine. The nerd in me will however keep researching until I figure out if the maserati was actually recommendeding glycoshell (G48) or glycoshell Longlife (G30)

 

[strictly]

To help lets define what these things mean.

De-ionised water is water which has had ions removed through an Ion Exchange Process
De-mineralised water is water which has had minerals (trace metals, trace salts etc) removed through an Ion Exchange Process.
Distilled water is water which has been purified by evaporation and then condensed in a clean environment.

It should be noted that the above says that the pre-mix uses de-ionised water, but this is probably because this is a process they use to ensure consistency and long shelf life in the factory. That they are happy for it to be mixed with tap water from concentrate suggests that they are not concerned about trace elements in use.

One note on tap water. It tends to contain a lot of dissolved air through the pumping and filtering processes it goes through. In a closed system (like a large building air con system or your central heating) this air falls out of solution over time, which is why you have to bleed your radiators occasionally and also why you need inhibitor and biocides (which are in your antifreeze), because the oxygen in that air promotes corrosion in ferrous metals and bacterial growth (Legionella etc). Once this oxygen is gone, it doesn't come back, but on a regularly topped up system it can persist. This, to my mind, is really the only meaningful difference between tap water and DI water in this application.

But you could fill your car with tap water and glycol and have absolutely no issues hundreds of times, because it really doesn't make any difference.

Would I use de-ionised water when doing a complete replacement? Probably, if I had some. Would I top up with a tap water / glycol mix and not lose any sleep over it, ever? Yes.

You are def in the massively overthinking it section now, may I suggest a cup of horlicks and a good book?

P.s great analysis, I like how you broke it down