CAR AUCTIONS

Doctor Houx

Doctor Houx

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792
Nayf said:
The 8C is great car. It might be a little choppy on Norfolk roads and LHD will be 'fun' on the North Norfolk coast road (it's a big car) but I can put you in touch with the owner of the blue 8C I drove for Auto Italia last year. A different set of tyres works wonders and while Bedfordshire roads are better than Norfolk ones, not by much, and I didn't think it was overly harsh or choppy.
It's not without its flaws – it's not a sportscar, but there's not quite a big enough carrying space for a long-distance sojourn unless you've got a base and thus clothes/stuff waiting for you at the other end.

However, the big thing is how different it feels to the Maseratis it's based on. I remember when Harry did his video on PH member WTFWT's old car with the bespoke dampers, and there was much negative comment that it was just an expensive, impractical GranTurismo.
This isn't my impression at all (well, apart from the impractical bit) – I've driven all the GS and GTs now and the steering feel is much heavier, much more direct than all the GranTurismos – yes, even the MC Straddle. The only one that gets close is the GranSport MC Victory; I stand by the notion the MC Stradale has a softer feel than the GS MCV. The 8C is more direct still. Not to the levels of Ferrari – because that wouldn't be allowed – but a marked difference to the Masers.

Now, I am a bit of an obsessive about steering feel - I personally find it more important than the catch-all term of 'handling' – but the 8C felt rather more towards the TVR end of the spectrum rather than the polished handling nous of, say, an F430 Scuderia and the smooth big-hearted grand tourer in Nikes (GT MC Stradale). I enjoyed it more for that, it felt more exotic than either of the others. You'd hope so for £250,000, obviously.
It is still a heart over head decision - when you can get a Vantage 4.7 V8 with similar power, more space, an equally ahem 'of its time' interior, almost as pretty looks for, er, 15 per cent of the price. ****, an MC Stradale and MC Victory are 95 per cent of the exoticism but with room for four (excluding the two-seat MCs) but for 25-35 per cent of the price.


However... as much as even my fevered Maserati brain would try to funnel me to a GS MCV as the rational irrational choice, given the money, I'd still be lining up to buy the Alfa...

Best of luck with it, and if it does happen let me know so I can come along and dribble over it.


If you've not driven one, it is a very, very, very different experience to an SDP Vanquish (which I've also driven).
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Thanks Nathan; that’s really insightful stuff!

I too am really not sure I want another pretty expensive Garage Queen to replace the one I’ve got. The reason I’m selling is because I’ve done all I can with it condition wise, won all the Concours it’s eligible for, and frightened to add mileage or get it wet. I’d be in the same situation with an 8C.

My other school of thought is a much cheaper more useable car and hence a GC Centennial or a manual 360 Spider. Both of those are just £60k ish.

If the latter, then will be asking Bebs what to watch out for as he’s the 360 Guru!
 
DLax69

DLax69

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4,299
Doctor Houx said:
Thanks Nathan; that’s really insightful stuff!

I too am really not sure I want another pretty expensive Garage Queen to replace the one I’ve got. The reason I’m selling is because I’ve done all I can with it condition wise, won all the Concours it’s eligible for, and frightened to add mileage or get it wet. I’d be in the same situation with an 8C.

My other school of thought is a much cheaper more useable car and hence a GC Centennial or a manual 360 Spider. Both of those are just £60k ish.

If the latter, then will be asking Bebs what to watch out for as he’s the 360 Guru!
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Just??? The Good Doctor needs to enlighten me on these $70k three-pedal 360s...!!!
 
Ewan

Ewan

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6,812
Doctor Houx said:
Here’s one at £67k

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The 360 is the current Ferrari bargain. Quite a step-up in performance from the 355 (though obviously not as pretty).

That said, mine only lasted for three weeks before it blew it's engine in a giant and embarrassing ball of smoke on the Kings Road...
 
Doctor Houx

Doctor Houx

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792
Ewan said:
The 360 is the current Ferrari bargain. Quite a step-up in performance from the 355 (though obviously not as pretty).

That said, mine only lasted for three weeks before it blew it's engine in a giant and embarrassing ball of smoke on the Kings Road...
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Ah, I will try and avoid that if I can. I thought they were similar to the F136 as fitted to our Maser’s and the F430 except belt vs chain and we’re pretty bulletproof as long as dry sump oil level not overfilled when cold. Do they have any weak spots to look out for? As I said earlier…. Freephone Bebs!
 
Ewan

Ewan

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6,812
DLax69 said:
This one seems to get around...
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It finished at 10k.
More interestingly, in an auction of about 75 cars, only 10 or so even reached bottom estimate (which is always set low to entice bidding), so the vast majority will not have sold. Sign of the times perhaps?
 
dgmx5

dgmx5

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1,142
Ewan said:
It finished at 10k.
More interestingly, in an auction of about 75 cars, only 10 or so even reached bottom estimate (which is always set low to entice bidding), so the vast majority will not have sold. Sign of the times perhaps?
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Quite possibly, although Brightwells' location, rather uninspiring line up of vehicles offered, failure to keep up with the competition (both traditional auction houses and the online only offerings) and poor marketing will also have not helped.

If I was selling a vehicle, I think only SWVA and Morris Leslie would rank as less appealing outlets.
 
DLax69

DLax69

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4,299
dgmx5 said:
Quite possibly, although Brightwells' location, rather uninspiring line up of vehicles offered, failure to keep up with the competition (both traditional auction houses and the online only offerings) and poor marketing will also have not helped.

If I was selling a vehicle, I think only SWVA and Morris Leslie would rank as less appealing outlets.
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I thought they were reputable...?
 
dgmx5

dgmx5

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1,142
DLax69 said:
I thought they were reputable...?
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Brightwells are reputable. But those are the reasons why in my view they are falling behind the competition.

H+H, Silverstone, CCA ae all easier to get to than Leominster and generally have better classics offered.

Mathewsons' brand recognition has benefitted enormously from their Channel 5 show and they have invested heavily in their Pickford site.

ACA pull out the stops with their YouTube live streams.

The various online only auctions that sprang up in the pandemic with their hundreds of photos of each car and lengthy descriptions put traditional auction houses to shame.

Brightwells' offering has not really improved and I think that, in part, reflects in the poor prices achieved that Ewan was referring to.
 
Ewan

Ewan

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6,812
dgmx5 said:
Quite possibly, although Brightwells' location, rather uninspiring line up of vehicles offered, failure to keep up with the competition (both traditional auction houses and the online only offerings) and poor marketing will also have not helped.

If I was selling a vehicle, I think only SWVA and Morris Leslie would rank as less appealing outlets.
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Whilst I agree in part, Brightwells generally represents the lower end of the classics market, while other auctioneers have headed upmarket. But what is interesting here is the performance of this individual auction - the sale rate and offer price against guide price are way down on Brightwells norm.

I bought two cars from their auctions last year (Maserati QP and Porsche 911) and the success rates in those auctions were considerably higher. Hence my thinking a wider change may be in the air (rather than anything specific about Brightwells).

As a case in point, at their last auction a Scimitar I was interested in went for (from memory) something like £11k. Last night, a better example with a guide price of £9k-£12k stalled at a bit over £4k. Obviously well below reserve, so another no-sale.

I may call them about today to see if a post-auction offer is an option.
 
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dgmx5

dgmx5

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1,142
Ewan said:
Whilst I agree in part, Brightwells generally represents the lower end of the classics market, while other auctioneers have headed upmarket. But what is interesting here is the performance of this individual auction - the sale rate and offer price against guide price are way down on Brightwells norm.

I bought two cars from their auctions last year (Maserati QP and Porsche 911) and the success rates in those auctions were considerably higher. Hence my thinking a wider change may be in the air (rather than anything specific about Brightwells).

As a case in point, at their last auction a Scimitar I was interested in went for (from memory) something like £11k. Last night, a better example with a guide price of £9k-£12k stalled at a bit over £4k. Obviously well below reserve, so another no-sale.

I may call them about today to see if a post-auction offer is an option.
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Is that an offer on the Scimitar?

Strange how a brand so unloved as Reliant (save for that glorious period when travelling to my grandparents in Welshpool on the A5 from Leicestershire you would pass the rows of RS200s at the Tamworth factory) could produce a car so quintessentially 70s cool.

Why will nobody commit to making a true shooting brake?
 
Bebs

Bebs

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3,359
Doctor Houx said:
Ah, I will try and avoid that if I can. I thought they were similar to the F136 as fitted to our Maser’s and the F430 except belt vs chain and we’re pretty bulletproof as long as dry sump oil level not overfilled when cold. Do they have any weak spots to look out for? As I said earlier…. Freephone Bebs!
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The 360 has an F131 engine and as far as I know doesn’t share any components with the F136.
Certainly agree that 360s are the current bargain of modern classic Ferrari’s.
They are getting on to 20 years old now though and there are an awful lot of rubbish cars for sale out there. Parts are generally available, a few are no longer made.
As always a PPI from someone like AV Engineering is essential. A lot of cars have had deferred maintenance from when they were £35-40K so it is essential to buy a well looked after example or it’s very easy to drop £10-15K to bring it up to standard.
Depending on Mileage, for a good one, budget around £3000 a year maintenance. Some years more, some less.
Belts are not an issue as there is a panel behind the seats to get at them, so no engine out like previous models.
Personally I’d say a sports exhaust is essential, preferably the CS box although rare as hens teeth. The OEM box strangles the sound of that glorious flat plane crank V8 which was partly developed for racing in the 360 Challenge series.
If you are seriously considering one I would give Aldous at AV Engineering a call. He may know of a car or can certainly discuss known or potential issues with you.
He really is the guru on 360/430.
They are great cars, must be why I’ve kept mine for 20 years. Pretty solid engines, I just ticked over 183,000 km yesterday.
 
Ewan

Ewan

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6,812
dgmx5 said:
Is that an offer on the Scimitar?

Strange how a brand so unloved as Reliant (save for that glorious period when travelling to my grandparents in Welshpool on the A5 from Leicestershire you would pass the rows of RS200s at the Tamworth factory) could produce a car so quintessentially 70s cool.

Why will nobody commit to making a true shooting brake?
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Yes - the Scimitar.
Along with Princess Anne, my mother had one back in the 70's, and that is what was used to ferry me to and from prep school. Hence for nostalgic reasons, I quite fancy getting one now. But it has to be the right model and interior, and by chance, the one currently at Brightwells ticks those boxes. (The exterior colour is less important, as that can be changed/painted.)
 
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Phil H

Phil H

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4,167
Ewan said:
Yes - the Scimitar.
Along with Princess Anne, my mother had one back in the 70's, and that is what was used to ferry me to a from prep school. Hence for nostalgic reasons, I quite fancy getting one now. But it has to be the right model and interior, and by chance, the one currently at Brightwells ticks those boxes. (The exterior colour is less important, as that can be changed/painted.)
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Depending on the budget and preference Ewan; there's a Middlebridge which needs work, might also be a 'concours' Middlebridge available, a 6 on Ebay that looks decent, and there's usually a few 5's around (most of which require a fair bit of work). I think the 5 featured on Don Pither's book cover sold not too long ago.

I still fancy another......
 
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