Bushing noise, but it’s not…

Crazymind

Member
Messages
112
I have bought my 4200GT a month ago roughly and only recently I had time to start looking over it…
When I bought it the front passenger side was very Squeaky and I was almost certain it’s was the bushing. The noise was typical bushing squeaky suspension, same as I had years ago on my Porsche. Other than that the car was in decent nick. Oil pressure at cold was poor for at least 1 minute. Based on this I have knocked down several thousands from the asking price… all good.
Except the noise it is not coming from the suspension! I went through loads of posts here about the noisy suspension but none relates to the noise I hear.
Car on the lift and all the bushings solid as rock.
No noise no movement. Steering to the left and to the right no noise either.
Off the ramp and the noise starts again. It’s is so noisy that it seems impossible not to see what is wrong with it!
Could possibly be the steering rack being squeaky like bushing noise? Anybody can point me to the right direction?
 
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philw696

Member
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28,181
It's usually the front suspension silent blocks that go hard and become noisy.
Any different if you lube everything up and go for a drive ?
 

Crazymind

Member
Messages
112
Greased every single piece of rubber under there :)
Nothing has changed.
Torsion bar bushing little perished but it wouldn’t cause that kind of noise.
 

conaero

Forum Owner
Messages
35,461
Front shock bushes. On a jack or ramp with the wheel removed, liberally dribble oil around the base of the shock into the lower bush and let it run into a bowl. I would do the same for the arm bushings too. I’ve had very good results with this.
 

Zep

Moderator
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9,802
Oil pressure at cold was poor for at least 1 minute. Based on this I have knocked down several thousands from the asking price… all good.

Low oil pressure on startup is quite a biggie. The oil pump drive might be on its last legs….
 
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philw696

Member
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28,181
Major job and expenses if the oil pump unit is failing.
Have a good look underneath around the water pump weep hole.
 

Crazymind

Member
Messages
112
Good tips thanks! About the oil pressure I hope it’s just the oil sender. I’ll give you an update on this as well when time comes.
 

Zep

Moderator
Messages
9,802
All the best with that. There is lots of info around how the senders fail, so have a go with the search box. Unfortunately low pressure at start up would be a new one.
 

Crazymind

Member
Messages
112
Thanks mate! I am confident it’s sensor related. It doesn’t happen all the time and only when the engine is cold.
I’ll pray the Trident God to be with me :)
 

Crazymind

Member
Messages
112
Quick update. I had not much time to look into the 4200 but…
The oil pressure issue… The pressure sender is giving out incorrect readings rather than an actual pressure issue…
I still haven’t found the source of the creak however not much left to check… steering rack is ok. Only left to check as suggested anti roll bar or shock bush.
 

Crazymind

Member
Messages
112
Another update. Sender replaced. Light is off. However I wasn’t happy about and I had a weird gut feeling after the light disappeared. I don’t know you guys here but I am always open to have a better understanding. Following the comments of @Zep and @philw696 i decided to test the system and add additional pressure gauge to double check. And thank you for your comments you have saved my the engine!
Cold pressure reached 1bar after start up from cold and 2 minutes later is up to 2 bar. Not good and as already commented, oil pump on its last legs probably.
Thanks as well to @conaero, your point about the strut bush was spot on. Noise coming exactly from there.
So far 3 of the most valuable comments ever received in forum tread. Thank you so much. Looking forward to meet you and offer you a pint.
Next chapter is to make a decision… sell the car for spares or repair it…
 

philw696

Member
Messages
28,181
Another update. Sender replaced. Light is off. However I wasn’t happy about and I had a weird gut feeling after the light disappeared. I don’t know you guys here but I am always open to have a better understanding. Following the comments of @Zep and @philw696 i decided to test the system and add additional pressure gauge to double check. And thank you for your comments you have saved my the engine!
Cold pressure reached 1bar after start up from cold and 2 minutes later is up to 2 bar. Not good and as already commented, oil pump on its last legs probably.
Thanks as well to @conaero, your point about the strut bush was spot on. Noise coming exactly from there.
So far 3 of the most valuable comments ever received in forum tread. Thank you so much. Looking forward to meet you and offer you a pint.
Next chapter is to make a decision… sell the car for spares or repair it…
Sorry to be reading this but it is repairable if you can get a pump assembly.
I did mine over 10 years ago at home on my back so it's very doable.
Good Luck on what you decide and if I was in the UK or you want to get it here I'd happily take it on.
 

Crazymind

Member
Messages
112
Thanks for your support! I see you are in Ballots. I have a client in Laval, next time I am down I am coming to visit :)
Just a bit disappointed and low morale at the moment. Need to understand how the job is done… I was of the understanding it’s a front subframe out?
A few things I need to be doing, not many though.
Front passenger strut bush, sway bar bushing.
The bearing s of the alternator are gone. Alternator is perfect though. There is company in Glasgow they ll refurb it for 200quid. Strut bush very cheap.
If it is subframe out need to understand what would be the best plan.
 

philw696

Member
Messages
28,181
We lived in Laval for 2 years and no it well I go there every Friday.
Don't need to drop the subframe just lift the engine up with an engine crane.
It's fiddly getting the engine mounts off and the exhaust manifolds but all doable.
There was a place in the USA refurbishing the pump assembly as it's the same in the F430.
If it's a nice car it's worth saving.
 

Crazymind

Member
Messages
112
It sounds like I might resuscitate the 4200.
Lift the engine up, you mean just a few inches or engine out? Pump assembly refurbishment I know a company in Glasgow, not cheap but hey! What is cheap this days… 800 quid at least. New engine mounts would be a good idea I guess… set me back another few hundred? Couple of grands In parts and most of winter weekends working on it. I’ll set a side a couple of grands for beer as well :)
 

TimR

Member
Messages
2,788
There are ( were a while back anyway) pump rebuild kits about. Probably an eBay seller but they are sold as for Ferrari pumps, as cited above if you go looking Would be OEM parts afaik….
Engine mounts are ling since nla mate.
 

philw696

Member
Messages
28,181
It sounds like I might resuscitate the 4200.
Lift the engine up, you mean just a few inches or engine out? Pump assembly refurbishment I know a company in Glasgow, not cheap but hey! What is cheap this days… 800 quid at least. New engine mounts would be a good idea I guess… set me back another few hundred? Couple of grands In parts and most of winter weekends working on it. I’ll set a side a couple of grands for beer as well :)
The engine only needs supporting with the crane as you'll have the mounts off to give you the room to work under to remove the assembly.
A new pump in 2014 was over £1500 but back then an 04 4200 was a £15,000 car.
The one I did was so good I took it to New Zealand and it's still there.