Brexit Deal

Wattie

Wattie

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Before Brexit I don’t think any of us would be able to comprehend any situation where the Uk would hand over control of a negotiation it was in - to the other party to determine.
Truly extraordinary.
 
daverichardson

daverichardson

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I am struggling to keep up here.
What has happened?
Correct me please if I am wrong
BJ lost a vote, has no majority in Parliament and remains PM
Ok, we have had minority Governments before (Clegg Cameron and earlier Harold Wilson). May not be good but what is the big deal?
Please help - in simple terms if you do not mind
 
Wattie

Wattie

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daverichardson said:
I am struggling to keep up here.
What has happened?
Correct me please if I am wrong
BJ lost a vote, has no majority in Parliament and remains PM
Ok, we have had minority Governments before (Clegg Cameron and earlier Harold Wilson). May not be good but what is the big deal?
Please help - in simple terms if you do not mind
Click to expand...
Despite having voted to keep “no deal” on the table in June, see my video post, Parliament yesterday decided that “no deal” was totally unacceptable, no mandate etc ( beacause a brexiteer Pm is serious about it presumably) and tabled a motion for a new law and vote that would force Bj to go to the Eu and ask for an extension. Oh yeah apparantly we can refuse it (but Parliament from day 1 is a remain majority) if the Eu says 10 years but basically the new law gives us zero negotiation position whatsoever.
Further it looks like Parliament wont agree to an election until this new legislation is approved.
This new law which is 100% democratic apparantly and in the national interest, will be pushed through in the next few days.

Bj then sacked all 20 shyster MPs who voted against the govt and who were elected on the “no deal is better than a bad deal manifesto” and apparantly that’s outrageous. Their deceit is not.

So basically the Uk Parliament is now giving our negotiating position to the Eu. If accepted there will be another 3 month delay if Europe accepts, but if I were Europe ( and I have pointed out their error before) they should not make the same mistake again.
They should say no extension.
Our Mps will then revoke A50 and the vote will have been betrayed.

Or we face yet another 3 month extension to Jan 2020 and probably a more hung parliament.

Anyone agree my assessment?
 
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daverichardson

daverichardson

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Thank you
It seems to me we have 600 or so MP's that have their own agenda.
If there is an election I will probably vote and then after that the way I feel now is never again.
I have been let down and lied to (brazenly). I am sick to death of the whole charade by a bunch of clowns that do not do what they are elected to do and constantly tell me they know better than me because they are self appointed experts.
It is a disaster for Democracy

Do they realise this - probably not
 
Wattie

Wattie

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8,640
daverichardson said:
Thank you
It seems to me we have 600 or so MP's that have their own agenda.
If there is an election I will probably vote and then after that the way I feel now is never again.
I have been let down and lied to (brazenly). I am sick to death of the whole charade by a bunch of clowns that do not do what they are elected to do and constantly tell me they know better than me because they are self appointed experts.
It is a disaster for Democracy

Do they realise this - probably not
Click to expand...
They knew what they were doing in June.

What’s funny is that if there is another referendum or election and a Brexit vote/party wins/gets in.....those in favour of that position have had to win a majority twice!
It’s like that “no deal” vote above from June that until yesterday was totally acceptable but is now overruled!

Yet, Only 1 vote for remain will, See Brexit thrown out!
HTFITfair and democratic?
 
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Rwc13

Rwc13

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However they might try to dress it up, yesterday parliament voted to bring down the Government and cancel Brexit. They voted to take no deal off the table, having already voted to reject the only deal on the table, a deal that will now never be changed by the EU. So, there is now nowhere for parliament to go but either accept the deal that has already been thrice rejected or cancel Brexit. Cancelling Brexit becomes the only sustainable position, but at what price to the UK? A divided nation, a failed parliamentary democracy, and a laughing stock to the rest of the world.

And all because the minority and their “representatives” in parliament who lost the referendum would not accept the result and allow the Government to negotiate a good deal. Instead through completely underhand and selfishly motivated actions (yes I’m talking about you Corbin and Sturgeon) they tied the Government’s negotiating hands behind its back.

I voted remain in the original referendum, but I am frankly almost ashamed to say that now, for fear that I too will forever be regarded as one of those that destroyed UK democracy.
 
JonW

JonW

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Wattie said:
Anyone agree my assessment?
Click to expand...

surprisingly enough....... no!

With respect, it’s so one sided it even gives Jacob Rees-Mogg a run for his menu with his suggestion that the bill last was constitutionally irregular, and his attempt to tell the speaker that it’s important to obey and respect the conventions of the House of Commons! The bare faced arrogance of that man is appalling

My view on what happened last night is that some people stood up for their principles and for what they believe to be the right thing for the country and refused to be bullied by a Prime Minister who is taking decisions which, if done by either Korea, China, or Russia would be unanimously declared an outrage and affront to democracy.

Don’t get me wrong - I think it’s an appalling, laughable state of affairs, and it is doing untold damage to the UK’s reputation on the worldwide stage. It may also be the end of politics as we know it. However, before anyone tries to dismiss this as the views of a Remainer who refuses to accept that we are leaving the EU, it’s not. I accept that the country voted to leave. This means we have to do everything possible to find a way of leaving that works. However, I think a no deal Brexit is not what was voted for, and if we are going to leave on a no-deal Brexit, then I think Parliament should insist on this going back to the people for a vote. If there was an election, and Boris or anyone else won with a no-deal manifesto, then fine. We would get what we voted for...
 
Wattie

Wattie

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Fair enough Jon.
“My view on what happened last night is that some people stood up for their principles and for what they believe to be the right thing for the country”

They were all happy to be elected on deception though.....further around 12 weeks ago they all believed and supported “no deal” . So it was supported...then.....there was no bullying was there?

So what changed....a new Pm determined to exit, and carry out the vote result.

I agree that a way of leaving that works is best, but Europe doesn’t ever want anyone leaving- it’s not in its interest and that’s where this whole thing falls down,
If you genuinely respect the leave vote, you have to accept that means walking with no deal. Unfortunately we have been hung with a ‘deal” that is so diabolical that it was rejected 3 times. There is no other deal- apparently.

This is stop Brexit, nothing else.
 
Wattie

Wattie

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8,640
Rwc13 said:
However they might try to dress it up, yesterday parliament voted to bring down the Government and cancel Brexit. They voted to take no deal off the table, having already voted to reject the only deal on the table, a deal that will now never be changed by the EU. So, there is now nowhere for parliament to go but either accept the deal that has already been thrice rejected or cancel Brexit. Cancelling Brexit becomes the only sustainable position, but at what price to the UK? A divided nation, a failed parliamentary democracy, and a laughing stock to the rest of the world.

And all because the minority and their “representatives” in parliament who lost the referendum would not accept the result and allow the Government to negotiate a good deal. Instead through completely underhand and selfishly motivated actions (yes I’m talking about you Corbin and Sturgeon) they tied the Government’s negotiating hands behind its back.

I voted remain in the original referendum, but I am frankly almost ashamed to say that now, for fear that I too will forever be regarded as one of those that destroyed UK democracy.
Click to expand...
Well said and respect to you for saying as much.
 
Wanderer

Wanderer

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5,791
Re the Tory rebels, I think what tipped them over the edge is Boris, he truly is a blow hard cockwomble. It’s patently obvious he’s done feck all regarding dealing with the EU, the Irish Foreign Minister spilled the beans on Monday.

Poor old Ken Clarke, a proper statesman, now out in the cold, while JRM, who appears to know more about medicine than a top doctor, gets to kip on the front benches no doubt fretting over possibly having to pay some tax if we’re still in the EU when the offshore tax avoidance directive is in force.

I know there’s no Corbyn fans on here and whilst he is a poor politician he’s certainly not self serving like these cnuggets.

I fart in their general direction.
 
Rwc13

Rwc13

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Corbyn not self-serving. You’re having a laugh. Corbyn has used this whole fiasco simply to try and get himself to number 10. He’s a brexiteer when it suits him and a remainer when it suits him. In fact I suspect he would dress up however anybody wanted just to win a vote. The man has no principles at all
 
Wattie

Wattie

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8,640
Wanderer said:
Re the Tory rebels, I think what tipped them over the edge is Boris, he truly is a blow hard cockwomble. It’s patently obvious he’s done feck all regarding dealing with the EU, the Irish Foreign Minister spilled the beans on Monday.
Click to expand...
Ok so please explain to us all what he is to do when the Eu say the current deal wont change?
 
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