lifes2short
Member
- Messages
- 5,841
exactly and there lies the problem, we all thought that way when we were young and reckless and yoof of today all think that way and ignore the restrictions, i probably would of done as well
Are you worried yet.
- Thread starter Saigon
- Start date
- Status
exactly and there lies the problem, we all thought that way when we were young and reckless and yoof of today all think that way and ignore the restrictions, i probably would of done as well
Phil H
Member
- Messages
- 4,182
Saigon
Member
- Messages
- 778
Bet that stumped a few!
breakeronly
Junior Member
- Messages
- 90
Yes you don't want to get caught out .
daverichardson
Member
- Messages
- 6,001
Stumped for an answer
Wattie
Member
- Messages
- 8,640
We do indeed live in a world of toxic substances and an obvious sign of how all this has possibly impacted life was the daily reminder on my daughters kindy fridge of all the food allergies dangers and “stay clears” that around 15 or so of her classmates faced.
Nuts, gluten, sugar, lactose etc etc
Many life threatening. Epi-pens at the ready.
When I was a kid (and I’m sure most of you too) none of this existed. The most dangerous thing any of us had to contend with was a game of “knuckles” or hay fever- not the contents of a lunch box.
There’s got to be a reason for all these kids having these conditions (that we all didn't) and I’m pretty certain it relates to all the additives, preservatives and E numbers etc or indeed approved insecticides (used in farming procedures) that now exist in and on what we consume.......all of which we’re continually reassured cause us no health issues.
So you either believe the vaccine is safe.
Or you are unsure.
Or you don’t.
One things for sure, The pace of its development has been staggering.
COVID-19 Vaccine Shipped, and Drug Trials Start
A vaccine and a drug against COVID-19 are closer to human testing
February 2020 for Moderna....only weeks after the virus reared it’s head.
Is it safe, has safety been compromised?-we may well find out in 5-10 years from now.
By the way, it will be very easy to manipulate the immediate “covid +ve test results” to give the impression the vaccine is a game changer.
A simple change to the current “cycle threshold” testing procedure can remove thousands of those that would be classed as testing +ve today, to negative tomorrow.
Given that Governments/labs don’t seem keen to report such cycling data just now makes Covid vaccine skeptics like me all the more cautious.
We will see.
Last edited:
Zep
Moderator
- Messages
- 9,304
I read up on the cycle threshold thing. It’s certainly very interesting but not, as you would expect, clear cut.
To my understanding it is basically the number of times the cells in a sample (a swab for example) has to have its content “amplified” or increased, so that it can be detected in a test. I remember seeing details of this back in March when the rapid test machines were being reported on the news.
In theory, the amount of virus in a sample is defined by the number of cycles needed to get it to a state where it can be detected.
From what I have read there is one big issue with using the cycle count to determine the viral load. The quality of the original sample, which is either taken by a healthcare professional or by the individual themselves, can vary significantly so when the cycle count is high, this is either because the test subject has a low viral load or that the method of collecting the sample was inferior in some way. I also understand that different tests are used, sometimes in the same lab, which also makes it tricky to compare apples with apples.
Still, it was interesting reading. And perhaps, from a purely statistical point of view it would be interesting to compare the numbers. I’m not clear on how knowing cycle counts would have a bearing on the need or otherwise for vaccines.
To my understanding it is basically the number of times the cells in a sample (a swab for example) has to have its content “amplified” or increased, so that it can be detected in a test. I remember seeing details of this back in March when the rapid test machines were being reported on the news.
In theory, the amount of virus in a sample is defined by the number of cycles needed to get it to a state where it can be detected.
From what I have read there is one big issue with using the cycle count to determine the viral load. The quality of the original sample, which is either taken by a healthcare professional or by the individual themselves, can vary significantly so when the cycle count is high, this is either because the test subject has a low viral load or that the method of collecting the sample was inferior in some way. I also understand that different tests are used, sometimes in the same lab, which also makes it tricky to compare apples with apples.
Still, it was interesting reading. And perhaps, from a purely statistical point of view it would be interesting to compare the numbers. I’m not clear on how knowing cycle counts would have a bearing on the need or otherwise for vaccines.
Wattie
Member
- Messages
- 8,640
It’s interesting alright and many doctors/ scientists have real concerns that many people who are not infectious (and not likely to become infectious) have received positive test results, and together with their contacts, have been forced to isolate unnecessarily.
Whole economies are getting shutdown on this basis!!!!
Govts are not disclosing what these “cycling levels are” but it’s certainly with many up In the 40’s, indicating minute traces of virus possibly weeks or months old - but +ve according to the test!
Your Coronavirus Test Is Positive. Maybe It Shouldn’t Be. (Published 2020)
The usual diagnostic tests may simply be too sensitive and too slow to contain the spread of the virus.
It’s generally accepted that anything above 35 is not infectious!
Strong Inverse Correlation Between SARS-CoV-2 Infectivity and Cycle Threshold Value - Infectious Disease Advisor
Correlation between successful isolation of SARS-CoV-2 in cell culture and cycle threshold value may inform when patients can be safely discharged.
www.infectiousdiseaseadvisor.com
If Governments and labs are not declaring the cycling levels on their tests then this is a perfect way to conceal the true extent of the danger of the virus, by hiding it with a simple +ve or -ve result and cycling it a massive number of times!
hence why Florida’s move is interesting.
Cycling at 40- you pick up just about everyone who has ever been near an infected individual - they may have at one time been infected but not have even known they were ill!!
Cunningly Reduce the cycles to 20 in the labs and all these cases disappear!
It’s a perfect way to suddenly claim that everything is fixed!
The UK isn’t disclosing the information -
Claiming “Due to Statistical Disclosure Control, we would not be able to publish the full data set of threshold cycles for each positive case, as this would constitute personal data. Section 39 of the Statistics and Registration Service Act 2007 (SRSA) renders it an offence to disclose information held by the Statistics Board for statistical purposes that would identify an individual. As we are prohibited by law from publishing statistics in which individuals can be identified, we find that Section 44 of the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOIA) applies. Section 44 is an absolute exemption and no consideration of the public interest test needs to be applied”
So remove the name and release the cycle numbers.
Astonishingly, The UK is delaying results where cycling is greater than 40!!!!!
Page 9
Economies are being destroyed and freedoms being withdrawn over this.
Last edited:
Zep
Moderator
- Messages
- 9,304
I think, perhaps, for the reasons I mentioned, there is some reluctance to release potentially misleading information, in case it is used to further misleading narratives.
In any event, I still can’t see why it would have a bearing on the provision of a vaccine. The people in graves and ITU, I am sure, would have preferred to have one.
In any event, I still can’t see why it would have a bearing on the provision of a vaccine. The people in graves and ITU, I am sure, would have preferred to have one.
Wattie
Member
- Messages
- 8,640
The high cycling threshold is providing the perfect narrative that the disease is far worse than it actually is (WHO recommends 45!!!).
Got a test, cycled 40+ times,
Result, +ve .
isolate immediately and all your friends. Etc etc.
Oh, and we may shut your city down if there’s enough of u.
I’ll bet no-one on here that tested positive asked what their cycle count was or has even heard about it.
If sky news advised each night that 15000 tested positive at cycle of 40+ They’d have a tough job convincing anyone to lock down.....(nobody would give a feck).....let alone convince them they needed a vaccine (likely to kill less than 3% of them).
Someone somewhere knows exactly what the UK (or any other countries) cycle thresholds are because every positive has one....seems we’re not allowed to know the data and that makes for a great deal of suspicion in my book.
Last edited:
Rwc13
Member
- Messages
- 1,668
So Governments are deliberately exaggerating how bad the virus is so that they can destroy the global and national economies and borrow/spend billions trying to preserve jobs/businesses? Really? You think that is a more realistic explanation than that the data and it’s impact is unreliable and so not being used as a basis for managing infection rates?
CatmanV2
Member
- Messages
- 48,856
Strange. I recall China was lying about how serious it is. Or maybe my memory is going..... </irony>
C
daverichardson
Member
- Messages
- 6,001
Will there, should there be any retribution against China for unleashing this thing on all of the world?
I understand from colleagues that Russia is having it very bad - lockdown until Jan 31st 2021
Despite Putin's claims
I understand from colleagues that Russia is having it very bad - lockdown until Jan 31st 2021
Despite Putin's claims
The truth of this is that we don't really know about the long term impact of the vaccines. Will the vaccines save more lives net than not having them? Of course they will and we can all get back to work far quicker than waiting for the virus to become less virulent as it would do in time (they always do). Given that the long term impact of lockdown in delayed healthcare treatment and reduced longevity due to greater poverty could easily be far worse than the Covid19 deaths total then this is a massive win.
However, the vaccines are being rushed through and it is inevitable that issues will be found down the line in terms of reaction to other drugs and treatment regimes. The net effect is that the vaccines are the right choice for society as a whole but this does not mean that they will not kill or materially affect the healthcare outcomes of some. It's about proportionality and doing the right thing but it is not without risk. Get it wrong and it's a new twist on a Dan Brown thriller. Whatever happens in several years time the Sunday Times will run a feature on how corners were cut in clinical trials and subsequent analysis of the data. I hope that governments' are indemnifying big pharma for lawsuits that are inevitable a decade down the line.
However, the vaccines are being rushed through and it is inevitable that issues will be found down the line in terms of reaction to other drugs and treatment regimes. The net effect is that the vaccines are the right choice for society as a whole but this does not mean that they will not kill or materially affect the healthcare outcomes of some. It's about proportionality and doing the right thing but it is not without risk. Get it wrong and it's a new twist on a Dan Brown thriller. Whatever happens in several years time the Sunday Times will run a feature on how corners were cut in clinical trials and subsequent analysis of the data. I hope that governments' are indemnifying big pharma for lawsuits that are inevitable a decade down the line.
Wattie
Member
- Messages
- 8,640
Governments have been covering up the true extent of their economies and the global financial crisis for over a decade, papering over it, bailing out everything, whilst the debt grew and grew, pretending it was ok.nothing solved. Go look at global debt and how it’s grown. Economies were in trouble before covid came along, (Go look up the Us repo crisis if late September 2019) They need to produce ever increasing sums to maintain the Ponzi.
Don’t you think it’s Strange how austerity was key, cast in stone, sacrosanct, but now that’s all gone out the window and now mmt is all the rage.......
I think covid is going to be used by them as some sort of financial reset, possibly the removal of cash, digital currency introduced replacing it. Probable bail ins etc we’ll all be hit with to repay all the debt. You cannot conceal wealth if digital currency is introduced.
when the virus raised its head 9 months ago it was an unknown quantity. It isn’t that anymore. We know how many have died, that it is probable far more than those counted at 65million have had it and we know who it mainly affects.
It makes no sense to destroy economies for less than 3% mortality yet destroying many of the livelihoods of the 97%is exactly what they’re doing.
This stupid test is what decides that and it is hugely secretive as they will Not tell you the “cycle thresholds”
let’s face it, they could easily do so. BJ could easily stand up at his briefing and announce the average rates in London etc
announcing something in the region 10 might make people take it seriously.
instead silence, just +ve or -ve oh and you’re all locked down or whatever stupid scotch egg rule is on the menu.
CatmanV2
Member
- Messages
- 48,856
Probably ought to start with
Vaccines are incredibly safe. MMR, for example, has less than 1 death per million doses, and that wasn't even attributed to the vaccine.
42 instances of side effects per million doses. OK not pleasant but on those odds vs 2500-3000 deaths per million cases of the diseases (combined).
OK so this isn't MMR. But what does rushed mean? What, in the public's expert opinion is the right amount of time to spend developing a vaccine?
C
Rwc13
Member
- Messages
- 1,668
I really can’t be bothered to pick all of this apart. But safe to say, as with all conspiracy paranoia, there are multiple more likely explanations for every aspect of this than what you propose. Hey, but let’s just go for the most extreme explanation because that fits best with the view that everything is corrupt, everybody is out to get us, and there is an Armageddon event of some type just around the corner
- Status