Are you worried yet.

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CatmanV2

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They have had as many reported cases, less deaths, more recovered and also tested more.

More cases due to more testing. That will skew all the other figures. We also have a far higher population density.

If 'Tested more' is better, then your answer is right there ;)

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rockits

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So in effect this could mean they have tested more and found more positive cases of CV in likely younger or more resilient population. Suggesting we could have had a decent percentage of the UK population having it here with no or mild symptoms.
 

CatmanV2

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So in effect this could mean they have tested more and found more positive cases of CV in likely younger or more resilient population. Suggesting we could have had a decent percentage of the UK population having it here with no or mild symptoms.

Correct, yes. Lack of testing in the UK means that cases may well be (a lot) higher than reported, which, in turn means that fatality (or any other stat) may be (a lot) lower.

Is testing standard and discovery unified/aligned across countries?

Nope

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doodlebug

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bars in Italy it's literally one sip of pure caffeine syrup and it's gone followed by a glass of water and off to work they go, barely worth the effort
First time I went to Torino for work, I was taken to a bar at 8:00am for an espresso and then off to work for another, but this one had a shot of Johnnie Walker Black Label added to get the day off to a good start. Lunch time arrives and we're off to a restaurant for a bottle of wine each and then back to the factory to try and do some work.

It's probably changed for the worse now, buy I've loved Italy ever since.
 

iainw

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Why are the Germany Covid figures so much better all round by some considerable margin?

I know we have said their health seems a little better but it is a massive massive difference.
Totally different healthcare system run by senior doctors not failed tescos managers. More educated population- goes hand in hand with health. 3x as many itu beds as the UK per capita. Much better structure of Medical care. I believe they did more testing earlier.
 

iainw

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Correct, yes. Lack of testing in the UK means that cases may well be (a lot) higher than reported, which, in turn means that fatality (or any other stat) may be (a lot) lower.



Nope

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This logic doesn’t make sense. Are you arguing the UK May have done better if more people were infected? The definition of doing well in this instance would be keeping the true numbers of infected people down , with a low number of deaths. It’s irrefutable that Germany are doing significantly better than the UK (and Italy and Spain etc) as their deaths are much lower. And I would believe their reporting of deaths as well if not more
So then the UK- who have massively underestimated and not counted the majority of care home or at home deaths. This isn’t a way to ‘bash the government’ or the population. It’s just a fact. We should give credit where it’s due. Yes their population is less dense and they have a larger land mass, but they also have vast borders with several countries , large immigrant population and a ‘similar’ population Mix and economy. Their health service is better, it’s run by the right people and their population is better placed to deal with situations like this. We shouldn’t try and deny or diminish it- we should try and learn from them.
 

foibles

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You can't draw truly accurate conclusions from this sort of data....however they are meaningful guides. I'd firstly suggest not confusing 'having CoVid' with 'running a test' or 'attributing death to CoVid'. If you just look at the last measure (fatalities...either as a raw number or as a percentile... a la 'deaths per thousand (million) etc' bear in mind the many significant variables;

  • Some nations include deaths from hospitals only, others include nursing homes, whilst others offer a broader base
  • Many hospital systems allow a single 'cause of death' to be reported. So how do you record whether the person died from CoVid, or from their underlying hypertension, or obesity, etc etc
  • Many political systems may deliberately intervene - as they want statistics to defend and support their own policies (whether to lock down, whether to open up, etc). More authoritarian governments get better 'compliance'
  • Many hospital systems may intentionally misrepresent - believe you me there's gold in them rivers (i.e funding attached to matters like CoVid). Hospitals will often behave in the manner that accrues greatest funding
  • Many individual health practitioners may even deliberately misrepresent (for their own political reasons, or above funding reasons) or misrecord data

There are also issues of competency, capability, capacity, etc etc etc. Policy is probably the biggest variable (whether you record deaths only in hospitals, or - in the case of North Korea - you simply tell your citizens that they must not catch or die from CoVid, which has been remarkably successful, and Kim is to be applauded) - as is capability (I'm sure in Afghanistan it may be problematic to record accurate statistics).

And - even the issue of timing (dead people inside houses during lockdown).

So....you can use these data sources to show trends (as I alluded to the other day, a clear trend between northern and southern hemisphere fatalities).....but don't expect them to be masterful records of actual events.

On the topic of difference / parallels between UK and Germany...ahem...the rest of the world does not see a huge disparity in your population density. My guess is Germany is twice the size, but with 55% more people? Given either end of these extremes - say India at one end and Australia the other - I'd see density, land mass, population, - even ethnic composition as vaguely similar between the two.

But it does seem that there is a material difference between fatality rates (rates, not raw numbers) in Germany vs the UK, and it is curious as to why that may be. As some have pointed out, UK should be in a more desirable position as it has less porous borders. Those porous borders worked well early on for Adolf.....but in theory should not help in a pandemic.
 

Wack61

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that's spot on, many years ago it was the bloomin cafeteria thing fill it up with water and ground coffee and on the hob, a right pain and only bothered having the odd espresso once a week, since the bloomin bean to cup machine it's far to easy to simply press the button and literally have anything between 5 to 8 espressos in the morning first thing :eek:


That's been my problem , why is this never working, always got a light on , needs beans, needs water, clean me, empty the drip tray.

why can't I sleep :D

20 years ago I was in edinburgh , late afternoon, 4 hour drive home so bought my first and only energy drink, a can of red bull

within 30 minutes I felt dreadful , indigestion, headache from **** and acid reflux , I certainly wasn't falling asleep though
 

lozcb

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Just had an update from the mother in law. 4 deaths in her carehome, 2, 2 weeks ago and 1 each week since (1 her patient). Now to make her see sense that it's not worth it with her scarred lung and high risk pensioner husband. If it's not too late, which I fear it may.

Get her out of it man, you only have one life,
 

CatmanV2

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My guess is Germany is twice the size, but with 55% more people?

Why guess?
Germany: 357,386 km²
UK: 242,495 km²
So 47% greater area

Germany: 83m
UK: 66.7m
24% greater population

Germany: 232 per km2
UK: 275 per km2.

Looks like about 18% lower density. Give or take.

Trump tweeted this moronic ramble last night apparently, before deleting it...

View attachment 69114

Dear god

C
 

lozcb

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Some Crazy people about.

Worst is Phil, that all those life savers/rescuers wouldnt be able to carry out their duties within social distancing regulations , hence putting around 80 good selfless peoples lives at risk , they need a dam site more than naming and shaming.
 

Silvercat

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Totally different healthcare system run by senior doctors not failed tescos managers. More educated population- goes hand in hand with health. 3x as many itu beds as the UK per capita. Much better structure of Medical care. I believe they did more testing earlier.
There are also significant historical reasons as to why both Germany and South Korea are much better prepared than most other countries for this kind of crisis and it all stems from the level of military threat that they have been facing over the last 60+ years, particularly during the cold war era. The sad fact is that military threat comes in all shapes and sizes from conventional weapons attack to nuclear or biological. South Korea has had North Korea breathing down its neck since the 1950's and Germany has more or less been 'on the front line' with the old Soviet Union , now Russia for 75 years or so. So both countries have had to be better prepared than most for all eventualities.
 
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