'Alternator failure' warning but alternator producing 14v.

Belfry

Member
Messages
193
Having not used my 2007 QPV auto for more than a week I went to fill it up just now. After I had filled up with petrol I went to start the car and there was a high pitch scream from the starter motor so I immediately stopped trying to start the car. I tried again and the car started fine and seemed to drive fine. However, after about 10 minutes I got an alternator failure message and a symbol of a battery on the dash. I drove home and checked the voltage on the battery which was showing 12.4 with the engine off and 13.9 with the engine running.

So the alternator is working, and the belts are intact and not slipping. Where would you suggest I look next please?
 

Belfry

Member
Messages
193
Starter motor.
I did wonder if the starter motor issue was connected. I'm guessing that the whining/screaming noise on that one occasions while starting was the pinion gear not engaging. Might this trigger this alt. failure warning? The car starts on the button now and I've tried it 6-7 times without problem.
I did disconnect the battery to reset the fault code but the warning came back.
I have my CTEK connected to see if fully charging the battery helps.
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,832
Thanks for the reply. I'm getting 13.9 volts from the alternator which seems about right.

Not quite. You're getting 13.9 volts measure across the battery with (at a guess) a digital voltmeter? If your reg / rectifier is going punk it could be spiking or doing other nasties (which the voltmeter probably won't pick up). Plus the battery will be doing its damndest to stabilise things.

the ZF box will lock into gear if it gets an over voltage as well. 3rd or 5th from memory. My 4.2 GT did it when the reg / rec started going. I guess yours didn't, or you'd have mentioned it.

Occam's razor would suggest the likely cause of an alternator light is your alternator, although I'm curious as to why the esteemed @Swedish Paul thinks the starter motor might be causing the alternator light. But certainly screeching starter might be.

Hopefully one of the experts will be along soon!

C
 

Saigon

Member
Messages
778
Are you sure it was the starter screeching, and not an alternator bearing?
Surely if it was the alternator bearing alone the engine would still have started? but on that occasion it didn’t start did it. Which may lead to the assumption there was a starter problem. But when you combine that with alternator fail warning it doesn’t make sense. What is actually utilised to sense an alternator failure ?
 
Messages
198
Super common to see alternators go out on F136 engines.
Now here is a quick list of how they go bad, usually every 50-70k miles heat is the major cause (as they're encapsulated in the plastic intake with zero air flow)
Mostly a rectifier that's gone toast, that said the symptoms are varied

  • Not loading (aka alternator light constant) easy
  • Loading only at idle 12.5 ish and whilst driving 12-12.5 < no light and a lot of odd issues and flat batteries
  • Loading only at idle not at 2000-3000 rpm, (or 11.9 ish) often no light and F1 issues (highway, F1 pump will start suffering)
  • Rectifier toast overcharging 14+ volts I've seen them blow dashboards with 18v spikes
Cars eating batteries is one sign, odd gremlins a other.

How we test it is not only checking the battery in the back, that in the second one of the list can be misleading, for the other cases:
Using a diagnostic tool whilst running under-load, check: (I have the customer drive while i check with the laptop, but you could do it differently)
BCM (dash-fuse box and body module) OR NQS that's the cluster
NCM (ecu in footwell)
Trunk canbus node OR NCR/TCU (f1 only) which is directly above the battery

So from alternator towards battery, you will notice that each will have a different voltage, the battery being a buffer.
Bad alternator will show up away from the battery dropping that ecu or group below 12 some times hitting 11 (be sure to use lights, defogger etc as test)

Bearings:
Actually a lot less common, the bearings that do fail often at same interval would be AC compressor clutch or the main-bearing of the pump.
Super common again 50-70k miles.
 

Swedish Paul

Member
Messages
1,811
Not quite. You're getting 13.9 volts measure across the battery with (at a guess) a digital voltmeter? If your reg / rectifier is going punk it could be spiking or doing other nasties (which the voltmeter probably won't pick up). Plus the battery will be doing its damndest to stabilise things.

the ZF box will lock into gear if it gets an over voltage as well. 3rd or 5th from memory. My 4.2 GT did it when the reg / rec started going. I guess yours didn't, or you'd have mentioned it.

Occam's razor would suggest the likely cause of an alternator light is your alternator, although I'm curious as to why the esteemed @Swedish Paul thinks the starter motor might be causing the alternator light. But certainly screeching starter might be.

Hopefully one of the experts will be along soon!

C
I don’t think it causing the alternator light. That could be a red herring. But I have had the starter motor scream, and as suggested, the cog isn’t engaging. Doesn’t happen all the time, just every now and then. Interestingly, mine started a couple of weeks after a clutch change. Coincidence? Maybe, but I will change mine at the service next year. 600 quid for the part, and I’ll get the one on the car refurbished.
 

conaero

Forum Owner
Messages
34,639
TURN THE BATTERY OFF NOW!

Without wanting to scare you, get the alternator replaced as we have seen them go up on several occassions

PM me, we have one on the shelf and will get you done straight away for £700 plus vat all fitted
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,832
I don’t think it causing the alternator light. That could be a red herring. But I have had the starter motor scream, and as suggested, the cog isn’t engaging. Doesn’t happen all the time, just every now and then. Interestingly, mine started a couple of weeks after a clutch change. Coincidence? Maybe, but I will change mine at the service next year. 600 quid for the part, and I’ll get the one on the car refurbished.

When I've heard this it's because of specific wear on points of the alternator drive or the flywheel. Tends to stop in the same spot so wears there more aggressively

C
 

Belfry

Member
Messages
193
So is the general opinion that I need to replace the alternator?
The 2 alternator fuses are fine and there is no generic fault code or CEL.
I quite fancy the project of replacing the alternator myself. Does anyone know if this alternator is specifically made for Maserati or are there options that cost less?
 

philw696

Member
Messages
25,529
One thing to remember in replacing the alternator is it needs to be spaced correctly for alignment.
 

rs48635

Member
Messages
3,181
So is the general opinion that I need to replace the alternator?
The 2 alternator fuses are fine and there is no generic fault code or CEL.
I quite fancy the project of replacing the alternator myself. Does anyone know if this alternator is specifically made for Maserati or are there options that cost less?
mine was DIY job. (at the time part price alone was above £1000)
removed and sent to <insert any alternator rebuilder>
fitting is revers of the above, with added swearing and minus layers of knuckle skin.
Oh and do not move the alignment screw unless you have to! Take pictures to get an idea of the re-fitting.
 

Belfry

Member
Messages
193
Oh and do not move the alignment screw unless you have to! Take pictures to get an idea of the re-fitting.
Good advice. Thank you. A bit like when I forgot about noting the number and size of the shims fitted either side of the control arms when I did the bushings!