Alternative springs and lowering

[mjheathcote]

Having just got home after a 50 mile blast, has anyone fitted alternative springs and lowered their 4200?
What's the difference compared to the gransport?
After having a Lotus Elise for 8 years, I'm finding it a bit 'wobbly'. I know you can't compare, but would like it a bit more sharper. I have to say, my new BMW 320d touring MSport company car is sharper.
It might not help that my car is still fitted with the original tyres from new, 9 years old but still 5mm on the back, 6 on the front.
Any opinions? I've skyhook, but I think all 4200 ended up being specified with this option.
Thanks,
Mike

 

[Emtee]

Wobbly! It's got more body roll than a weeble!

I've dropped my 4200 on the standard springs and the improvement is marked, but if you want to do it properly then a combination of sports springs and stiffened ARB are the way to go. FD do both, but at a cost. Pat (Maser Sod) did both (I think? certainly the springs) to his Rami GS, so his impressions would be good guidance

 

[Emtee]

Actually, just seen from the tyre pressure post that Nikos has the FD springs also, so his impressions would be helpful as well.

 

[Grinzzz]

I've now got Pat's Rame GS (so its Andy's Rame now!), and i had a 111r just before (running nitrons etc). I tried a couple of standard GS cars and I found them vague on turn in; I did a bit of reading though and found the FD springs - then discovered this one for sale, luckily.

The FD springs and lowering really do make a BIG difference, it's got a sharper turn in than a standard elise thats for certain. Not sure how it will handle on the absolute limit as it'll have to wait for a track before I do that but I have high hopes that with a little bit of messing about with ride heights (and maybe a chat to FD about custom springs) it'll be almost as smile worthy as my elise round corners and a **** sight faster on the straight bits!

Only thing "wrong" i can find so far is a tendency to tramline - it's worse than the elise (on really heavy springs) was but it's not generally as noticeable due to the power steering. It's also terrible (in my view as its over sprung, under damped) in normal suspension mode on really bad roads at high speed; however I think this might be the best setting on most tracks. Easily sorted though - just drive in sport all the time

 

[Emtee]

Sorry Andy, couldn't remember whether it sold with the FD springs on or not, hence referring back to Pat.

Definitely Andy's Rami now!

 

[BennyD]

Round the Ring my Spyder handled like a three legged cow in a sandpit. I found the best high speed cornering technique to be; throw it in, wait and sort out the resulting near crash. There is a fine line between success and failure but you are never more alive than when you are nearly dead. I just drive through it's shortcomings and have fun, but it is a comfortable tourer.

 

[mjheathcote]

Thanks for the comments, at least it's not me or the car in its current configuration at fault, it's the way it is. If the suspension is the same as the US export models, it explains a lot!
Will have to start a suspension tweaking piggy bank!
Thanks
Mike

 

[lozcb]

Thanks for the comments, at least it's not me or the car in its current configuration at fault, it's the way it is. If the suspension is the same as the US export models, it explains a lot!
Will have to start a suspension tweaking piggy bank!
Thanks
Mike

Cheapest option with reasonable results is to drop the 4200 around 20mm and fit 20-25 mm spacers this will give you a much more planted feeling and removes around 50% of that wallowy feel , there will inevitably be a downside and consequence to this long term, in repsect that there will be sligghtly more stress placed upon the wheel bearings and their life will be shortened as a result , by how much were are not sure , but be warned they are not cheap around £450 a corner


regards loz

 

[mjheathcote]

Hi Loz, did you really mean £450 a corner for a wheel spacer...£1,800 for four wheel spacers?! To be honest £450 for all four sounds expensive.
How easy is it to lower, and I assume a full geo afterwards?
Thanks,
Mike

 

[Emtee]

Check out Hill engineering for the spacers. £300'ish including shiny new extended wheel bolts for all four corners. Very good quality, I have the 15mm on mine which fill out the arches nicely. Any more would be too much IMO.

 

[Mr.Cambio]

Just came across this thread.Yes, i do have the sport springs by FD and i'm more than happy. When stock, and with the sport button on, the body roll at high speeds (over 150kms) was annoying me, and personally i did not feel safe. With the FD springs, i have never felt uncomfortable at high speeds or at fast cornering. I cannot say how the car behaves in traffic, as i do not use it in traffic or everyday. One disadvantage is that when you think to put your 4200 on a track, sport springs are not enough, and maybe you'll need the anti sway bars, too. It happened to me two weeks ago, it was the only time she was put on track, and i feel she was soft when cornering/braking. With the FD springs it's recommended to lower it some mms, but not too much, cause it won't look like a Maserati, but like a citroen saxo, and your cats will hit the ground.
Hope this helps,
Nikos

 

[sarosalemi]

Hi was just thinking to fit Fd springs and FD antisway bars.... how much do the springs affect the confort of the car??

 

[djmhall]

Another vote for the FD springs. They dramatically improve the overall feel of the car - the wobble is banished. The ride is obviously harder, but it depends heavily on the roads you drive on. Grinzzz has it spot on in that with the FD springs, they seem to be matched to the shocks with sport on - and hence you become under-damped with sport off. This is fine until you get to a bumpy road, at which point it can become a bit of pogo joke. Solution - leave sport on. On the standard springs, I am guessing they matched the springs to the normal shock settings, leaving you over shocked, but under sprung on sport, which personally I don't like. I have also lowered and set the geometry as per the FD instructions and (because I am a perfectionist) borrowed a friends corner weights and tuned in the corner weights to get to the best setup with just me in the car. Result is a car that is a whole lot more reassuring to peddle that standard.

Dom

 

[mjheathcote]

Where did you guys buy your FD springs, I assume in the uk from performance Italia?
The costs look eye watering to be honest, £2,200 for a set of springs and anti roll bars, then fitting on top?
To buy developed progressive springs and a pair of updated anti rolls bars for my Triumph Stag in comparison amounts to £610...and note these are not the standard springs and bars produced by the thousand, but specials with low production numbers, like the FD springs.
Where does all the additional cost come from, or is it simply a case of the car cost £70k new so the owners can afford to pay more for the parts?
I just feel....they are expensive...

 

[Maser Sod]

I got the springs direct from FD. Can't remember how much they cost to be honest, I bought the springs, DBW, ECM and air filter all together.

I think when Loz was quoting 1800 quid earlier, he was talking about the bearings not the spacers ...

 

[Grinzzz]

Where does all the additional cost come from, or is it simply a case of the car cost £70k new so the owners can afford to pay more for the parts?
I just feel....they are expensive...

Development costs plus low expected production runs. I guess they got through a lot of springs when trying to decide rates etc.

Must admit i did laugh when i saw how much they cost. I get some excellent springs custom made to my exact spec on the bimmer for no where near that price; think there are now 8 sets in the garage lol. Cant wait till I have to get the wheels off the maser to see whats so special about these. I'm guessing they're just heavy duty variable rate jobs.

 

[Grinzzz]

I have also lowered and set the geometry as per the FD instructions and (because I am a perfectionist) borrowed a friends corner weights and tuned in the corner weights to get to the best setup with just me in the car. Result is a car that is a whole lot more reassuring to peddle that standard.

Dom

Do you know the results of the corner weighting i.e. what % did you end up with on each corner? Interested to know as I'm thinking of doing mine but it's a lot of hassle if the end result isn't very far off your starting point!

 

[BennyD]

Development costs plus low expected production runs. I guess they got through a lot of springs when trying to decide rates etc.

Must admit i did laugh when i saw how much they cost. I get some excellent springs custom made to my exact spec on the bimmer for no where near that price; think there are now 8 sets in the garage lol. Cant wait till I have to get the wheels off the maser to see whats so special about these. I'm guessing they're just heavy duty variable rate jobs.

Grinzzz, If you do get some springs made that give a more sporting feel, I would be interested in having a set as well if that is Ok and that could make it cheaper for both of us. I'm not sure the stiff FD rates would be ideal for the 'flexi-flyer' spyder.

 

[Grinzzz]

Not a problem - once I've had a look at them to see if theres anything special about them; can't imagine that there will be but I've been surprised by things before!

If anyone knows the tech specs for the standard springs I'd be interested in knowing e.g rates (including if variable rate), length, internal and external diameter, wire diameter, no of turns etc. All good stuff to know.

and if anyone needs springs made up I can recommend these guys.....

http://www.dfaulknersprings.com/specials.htm

 

[BennyD]

Thanks mate. I would much rather someone who knows about such things does the calculations and comes up with a workable solution before I start to get involved!!