4200 Gearbox Oil Change - What Oil?

rockits

Member
Messages
7,696
This is what it will look like when you manage to get a stuck one out - you will destroy it in the process and then to top it off, it'll snap into two pieces leaving half in the gearbox. Fortunately the bit left behind is easily retrieved.

View attachment 41583

And this is what you want to be on the lookout for...

View attachment 41584


The "improvement" to the filter is to simply move the o-ring closer to the outside of the gearbox (the filter shown above is the old design). This prevents crud getting in and corrosion occurring. The part number is unchanged and I'm yet to get an old style filter so I would say the stock has been run out by now.
Thanks Voicey. That is a fine mess.

I guess this is often one of the things that we can trust a decent indy to do but often don't get done by main dealers even when the charge for it. Pollen filter another.
 

Panicracing

Junior Member
Messages
374
I actually have a white paper in draft on this very subject. In short please consider the following...

75W90
Fully synthetic
GL5
Designed for a transaxle
Deisgned for hypoid type diff
No friction modifier (unless the LSD is chattering)
Yellow metal safe


The motul oil referenced above is stated as having a friction modifier added - I wouldn't recommend using it unless the diff plates are chattering. The reason is because the FM can inhibit the syncro action. If you have a chattering diff then I would recommend putting in an oil without the FM and then adding small amounts of FM until the chattering goes away.


I recommend changing the oil every two years on a 4200. Please pull the little filter out to check for debris and be 100% sure you know how to get the level correct.
When speaking to Opie a few years ago they did point this as the oil has to do both diff and LSD and can be a compromise between a FM oil or non FM. I've had no issues over the years apart from last year when I went back to factory spec Rotra LSX as has some at a good price. Box became noisey and small amount of chatter. Went back to Motul LS and 100% better. Would you recommend using Motul non LS and say adding an FM if needed over using an FM oil ? Also had seized and broken filter when I first got car. Modified filter fitted and no issues ever since.

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Panicracing

Junior Member
Messages
374
When speaking to Opie a few years ago they did point this out as the oil has to do both LSD and gearbox can be a compromise between a FM oil or non FM. I've had no issues over the years apart from last year when I went back to factory spec Rotra LSX as has some at a good price. Box became noisey and small amount of chatter. Went back to Motul LS and 100% better. Would you recommend using Motul non LS and say adding an FM if needed over using an FM oil ? Also had seized and broken filter when I first got car. Modified filter fitted and no issues ever since.

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voicey

Member
Messages
653
When speaking to Opie a few years ago they did point this as the oil has to do both diff and LSD and can be a compromise between a FM oil or non FM. I've had no issues over the years apart from last year when I went back to factory spec Rotra LSX as has some at a good price. Box became noisey and small amount of chatter. Went back to Motul LS and 100% better. Would you recommend using Motul non LS and say adding an FM if needed over using an FM oil ? Also had seized and broken filter when I first got car. Modified filter fitted and no issues ever since.

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Being pedantic, the LSD and the diff will always be in the same housing. The issue is that the LSD and the gearbox share the same oil - to cure a chattering diff you want FM but that can inhibit the action of the syncros in the 'box.

If you're car was with me for service I would put in an oil without FM and then add a small amount at a time until the chattering went away. Then you have the optimal formula that is applicable to your car so can use it going forward.

Note that it can take up to 200 miles for the FM to start working with the diff.

The most important thing however (IMO) is to make sure the oil is yellow metal safe. Oils need additives to gain their EP rating - some additives weld themselves to yellow metals and when they wear with use, take a minute layer of metal off. The syncros are made from brass and, for a 360, are increasing difficult to get hold of.
 

conaero

Forum Owner
Messages
30,804
If you're car was with me for service I would put in an oil without FM and then add a small amount at a time until the chattering went away. Then you have the optimal formula that is applicable to your car so can use it going forward.

Note that it can take up to 200 miles for the FM to start working with the diff.
This is exactly what I did. A year on, all good.

Adding too much will trash it.

Another word of advice for a diy oil change. The capacity is 2.4~2.7L from memory...or until it flows out the filler. You will need a turkey baister type tool and initially you will only get less than 2L in. You then need to cycle the gearbox then add the rest.

Obviously if your doing it on stands/jacks you need to get the car up level or you will get a false full reading due to the incline.
 

voicey

Member
Messages
653
Another word of advice for a diy oil change. The capacity is 2.4~2.7L from memory...or until it flows out the filler. You will need a turkey baister type tool and initially you will only get less than 2L in. You then need to cycle the gearbox then add the rest.
There's no need to cycle the gearbox. Just simply wait for the level to equalise in both the diff and 'box housings. At least 20 mins
 

mjheathcote

Centenary Club
Messages
7,167
Interesting read.
I assume the factory fill Rotra LSX will have a friction modifier, like the Motul 300 LS has.
I can also see that using a non FM oil, and adding the FM afterwards to the correct % would be the ideal solution.
However never experienced a chattering diff, and not knowing what a chattering diff actually sounds like, I don't think I would want to be squirting FM in without a great deal of prior experience!
One would therefore assume that the Rotra/Motul with FM have 'approximately' the correct % of FM added. I can't imagine too much, as 'adding too much will trash it' surely will not be what the oil manufacturer will risk?
 

rockits

Member
Messages
7,696
I've went for genuine Maserati parts and gearbox oil from Ross @ Meridien. Oil and replacement filter.

Will change as soon as I can and report back as to if it resolves the occasional gear selection issues.
 

rockits

Member
Messages
7,696
Well.....you all warned me! That gearbox oil filter has to be the worst design and part I have seen on a car for a while!! Simple job really.....or should be. Got the car jacked up on axle stands so high enough and happy with all of that.

Then the first issue. Some nob jockey hadn't used a crush washer on the 22mm refill plug. Therefore it was chuffing welded on there prettry much as the two metal faces had partially fused. With a few whacks of a hammer on a wrench/socket I managed to get it to budge then unscrewed fine.

Second 14mm hex bolt drain plug came undone nice and easy. Then we get to the fun bit. Easy to unscrew the 8mm bolt securing the filter. Well, not sure it need that bolt. It seemed stuck in there good and proper. Tried to be gentle and careful........nothing. Tried a bit harder and strategically prying and trying to get some movement.....nothing. Tried a bit harder then a fair bit harder and it just starts to break up at this point.

Now I am left with some broken off and looks like I need to drill it out now. Or get some kind of bolt or fixing on to the rest of what is left to get a secure fixing to extract it. Called it a day for the night as I haven't got a right angled drill attachment which I will need. Unless I take a section of the exhaust out the way. I have moved the rubber exhaust fitting out the way but it is all still a bit tight. It would be a great deal easier on a lift but I haven't got one yet! Re-enforcing the decision to get one.

Does anyone know a tool or attachment or some clever little puller or something to see if I can get a secure fixing somehow on what is left to extract the rest in one piece?

Here is what is left and also what broke off:

IMAG0186.jpg

IMAG0189.jpg


Here is what the new oil looks like compared to the old oil. Can you tell which one is which!!

IMAG0188.jpg

IMAG0187.jpg
 

voicey

Member
Messages
653
I would normally use a small pry bar to get that out - knock the tip of the bar into the plastic and lever the heel against 'box casing.

Did you rotate the filter in situ to try and get it moving (before pulling it out)? If not then see if you can get some grips on the plastic and try to turn it back and forth.
 

Panicracing

Junior Member
Messages
374
When mine done exactly the same we made an extractor from an old flat file. Basically ground it tapered with sharpish edges to under the diameter of the aluminum casing. Carfully tapped into remains of filter being careful of casing and turned anti clockwise. A few turns and some penetrating oil and it came out no bother with no damage to aluminium.

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Moz1000

Member
Messages
723
Emblem have made tool for this. If I recall, it comprises a threaded rod and sleeve which acts as a slide hammer. The rod is such that it screws into the remaining filter and the sleeve is slid against a stop on the other end of the rod. Lengths all matched to the amount of clearance you've made. Slide the sleeve repeatedly against the stop to slowly work the filter out of the housing.

Might be best to give Myles a call in case I've missed something.

Moz
 
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rockits

Member
Messages
7,696
I would normally use a small pry bar to get that out - knock the tip of the bar into the plastic and lever the heel against 'box casing.

Did you rotate the filter in situ to try and get it moving (before pulling it out)? If not then see if you can get some grips on the plastic and try to turn it back and forth.
Thanks Voicey. Tried all that and more. I'm a fairly handy, creative and enterprising chap ;)

Couldn't rotate it or budge it a nats before or after it breaking up.

I had some stud extractors but nothing as big as 18-20mm ish kind of size. Bought a bigger set today so will try those when I can.

I'm hoping the stud/screw extractor option will work. If not will go for plan b and take the exhaust section out that is in the way to gain access to drill out or get better leverage. It is all a bit tight with no lift and a trolley jack that only jacks up so high. Will have to get the ramp stands out if not.

Been a long time since I have phaffed around under a car crawling around f'ing and blinding. Got a nice bruise on the back/shoulder from so many roll unders and outs on a nice concrete floor.

The garage 4 post lift project has already commenced!
 

rockits

Member
Messages
7,696
When mine done exactly the same we made an extractor from an old flat file. Basically ground it tapered with sharpish edges to under the diameter of the aluminum casing. Carfully tapped into remains of filter being careful of casing and turned anti clockwise. A few turns and some penetrating oil and it came out no bother with no damage to aluminium.

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Thanks for that. Going to try a screw/stud extractor first but my thoughts were to make a tool to do the job similar.

Stupid p1ssing design for a location and part that should be cleaned/changed every 2 years!
 

rockits

Member
Messages
7,696
Emblem have made tool for this. If I recall, it comprises a threaded rod and sleeve which acts as a slide hammer. The rod is such that it screws into the remaining filter and the sleeve is slid against a stop on the other end of the rod. Lengths all matched to the amount of clearance you've made. Slide the sleeve repeatedly against the stop to slowly work the filter out of the housing.

Might be best to give Myles a call in case I've missed something.

Moz
Thanks Moz. I'll see how I go with the screw/stud extractor first. Hopefully that will do the trick.
 

foibles

Member
Messages
336
There is a modified filter available from Maserati that does not suffer from sticking. Emblem fitted one on my last two coupes. If you can get yours out it is best to replace your old one with the new design.
Does anyone perchance know the part number for the 'modified' gearbox oil filter? I'm about to get all oil and fluids done...and it seems best to have this ready to replace....or even as a spare.
 

philgarner

Junior Member
Messages
152
Old thread I know but I am tackling this now. Of course my gearbox filter also does not want to come out. The good news is I have it out about 10mm so can at least get some purchase on it. I was able to get a screw through it and turn it but I then broke the screw off! Anyone have any more tips to share?