Warning!

2b1ask1

2b1ask1

Special case
Messages
20,311
Patience Danny, Good things take time but plenty of effort being made in all the right places :canny:
 
philgarner

philgarner

Member
Messages
226
mchristyuk said:
I gave myself 24 hours to calm down before writing back to the DVSA regarding the letter Maserati sent out.. this is what I've sent.. will let people know as and when I get a reply!

Hi John,

As you are no doubt aware Maserati 3200/4200/GranSport owners are now receiving their letters from Maserati regarding the cracking and failed wishbone issue.

I would like to know on what evidence the DVSA and Maserati came to the conclusion that it was an issue resulting from lack of “Correct Vehicle Maintenance”?

Maserati state in their letter that this issue arrises when the correct service schedule is not followed according to the “Owner Manual”.

I quote from the “Owner Manual” what is said regarding the inspection of such parts during servicing: "Front and rear suspension joints and relative tightening”.

Please can you tell me how an independent garage should interpret that sentence who has no knowledge of the potential for these parts to split open along the manufacturing seam (from the inside where external inspection is not possible)?

As you are no doubt aware it is illegal for Maserati to force the cars to only be serviced by their authorised main dealers, so are Maserati going to be writing letters to every single garage in the UK to explain what they mean by “Correct Vehicle Maintenance” when it comes to these parts as the “Owner Manual” to which they refer certainly doesn’t.

My final query is regarding cars with full Maserati service history and those with full independent specialist service history which suffered cracked wishbones. These owners provided reports to the DVSA as evidence that full and “Correct Vehicle Maintenance” is not a preventative measure for this issue. Again I ask what evidence Maserati provided considering their own main dealer network has failed to detect compromised safety critical components?

Kind Regards

Mark
Click to expand...
Excellent email Mark.

Sadly my car definitely has some service gaps so wiggle room definitely present. This is all making me regret going into GS ownership really :(
 
Evo Cymru

Evo Cymru

Member
Messages
688
mchristyuk said:
I gave myself 24 hours to calm down before writing back to the DVSA regarding the letter Maserati sent out.. this is what I've sent.. will let people know as and when I get a reply!

Hi John,

As you are no doubt aware Maserati 3200/4200/GranSport owners are now receiving their letters from Maserati regarding the cracking and failed wishbone issue.

I would like to know on what evidence the DVSA and Maserati came to the conclusion that it was an issue resulting from lack of “Correct Vehicle Maintenance�

Maserati state in their letter that this issue arrises when the correct service schedule is not followed according to the “Owner Manualâ€.

I quote from the “Owner Manual†what is said regarding the inspection of such parts during servicing: "Front and rear suspension joints and relative tighteningâ€.

Please can you tell me how an independent garage should interpret that sentence who has no knowledge of the potential for these parts to split open along the manufacturing seam (from the inside where external inspection is not possible)?

As you are no doubt aware it is illegal for Maserati to force the cars to only be serviced by their authorised main dealers, so are Maserati going to be writing letters to every single garage in the UK to explain what they mean by “Correct Vehicle Maintenance†when it comes to these parts as the “Owner Manual†to which they refer certainly doesn't.

My final query is regarding cars with full Maserati service history and those with full independent specialist service history which suffered cracked wishbones. These owners provided reports to the DVSA as evidence that full and “Correct Vehicle Maintenance†is not a preventative measure for this issue. Again I ask what evidence Maserati provided considering their own main dealer network has failed to detect compromised safety critical components?

Kind Regards

Mark
Click to expand...

Concur with others - good response Mark. Will be interesting to see their response.

It will be interesting to see how dealers respond to this too - say they discover cracked arms, will Maserati (or the dealer) cover the cost if the car has a complete Maserati service history? Will they cover labour as a 'goodwill gesture??

The letter from Maserati talks about getting them checked but doesn't actually state what happens if they discover a problem as far as I understand it?

Also it mentions the bushes as the cause of the problem leading to cracking of the wishbones - if they discover 'faulty' bushes (how do they ascertain that???) then will they replace these alone? Sadly mine are already cracked and replaced or I could find out!
 
mchristyuk

mchristyuk

Junior Member
Messages
668
Evo,

There will be no goodwill gesture.. Maserati are quite clear that the issue is because your bushes are knackered and haven't been replaced.. not their fault.

However what I struggle to see here is how do you tell your bushes are knackered and going to cause this, if Maserati are to be believed?

Normally bushes get sloppy when they wear and we get the familiar clonking in the suspension. For a bush to burst a wishbone it must be expanding, ergo no knocking.

How can you tell a bush has expanded "critically"?.. oh yeah that's right.. your wishbone will have burst open.

Prats.

Mark
 
S

stefanocirillo

Junior Member
Messages
214
Danny said:
The love for my 3200 AC is too big to have it traded against anything else so I am indeed looking forward to the SM (or other party) engineered solution. It would help if the people who are working on this could confirm how long it will approx take to have units available. 6 months? 1 year? 2 years? And what solution are they working on, only the lower arms? Front and rear?
Click to expand...

I'm in this boat with my GS despite saying 5mins ago i would get a cayman GTS/GT4! I just cant get away from it. Whilst my wishbones are all currently in working order, to ensure long term ownership i am very interested in learning more about SM solutions!
 
lovellracing

lovellracing

Junior Member
Messages
115
redsonnylee said:
We can put ours in a museum, am guessing yours is as clean and shiny as mine through lack of use :0)
Click to expand...

Yes Tony,
Same colour as well I have just fitted the new ABS Modulator but cant get a decent pedal ....just wont bleed Im trailering it down to the boys at Emblem tomorrow they have a gizmo to plug into which should make it work The car looks lovely sat in the yard!!!!
 
lovellracing

lovellracing

Junior Member
Messages
115
Whilst my car was in the air I thought I would inspect the wishbones which actually look OK but the only way to check if a crack is appearing is to remove the wishbones then take out the bushes crack test and refit........I don't think this would come under normal servicing

Ray
 
jluis

jluis

Member
Messages
1,703
lovellracing said:
Yes Tony,
Same colour as well I have just fitted the new ABS Modulator but cant get a decent pedal ....just wont bleed Im trailering it down to the boys at Emblem tomorrow they have a gizmo to plug into which should make it work The car looks lovely sat in the yard!!!!
Click to expand...

The hydraulic unit has internal reservoirs and passages that will only get filled in when the solenoids are actuated.
The ECU has a routine for that but you need an SD2 to trigger it
 
hladun

hladun

Member
Messages
150
So the bushes get hard and the arms fail. Way back I postulated that the exhaust header heat hardened the bushings. If that's the case Maserati should take responsibility because it's a design problem. (In NA we have different headers and seemingly fewer failures) Also, if that was the case the arms should fail at their points of highest stress, that would be in the sleeve where it joins the arm. (Someone can do a finite element analysis to confirm this.) But the sleeves fail at the ridge on the back side which has VERY little stress. To me that's a CASTING problem (cold shut?) and no amount of maintenance solves it.

P.S. When the bushing hardens it locks the arm. If you look at this FE diagram of a wrench you can see in the upper image the green area of highest stress. http://boltgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/Product/Work/Ready_Tools_D_FEA_Analysis_RO.jpg

P.P.S. With all the **** on this thread I hope someone actually reads this!
 
Zep

Zep

Moderator
Messages
9,332
Zep said:
I will confirm, we know they don't sell the rear toe link spherical bearing but I have not read anywhere to date that the bushes are NLA. As for pressing them out causing the problem, it didn't in my case (they were crack tested before and after) but that isn't a scientific study. I did also remove the excess material around the bush end. I have been checking regularly and haven't seen any evidence of deterioration.
Click to expand...

Ok, as promised I checked with a MD, the bushes are available from the factory, but there is limited stock. Front lower 'bone bushes are £68 plus VAT. They are also available from Ferrari as it is a shared part, however it does cost more.

I am awaiting costs for the complete 'bones from an Italian dealer and will confirm.
 
redsonnylee

redsonnylee

Member
Messages
1,550
lovellracing said:
Yes Tony,
Same colour as well I have just fitted the new ABS Modulator but cant get a decent pedal ....just wont bleed Im trailering it down to the boys at Emblem tomorrow they have a gizmo to plug into which should make it work The car looks lovely sat in the yard!!!!
Click to expand...

You're not alone I have to get mine trailered to, its just gone into limp mode! Hope it gets sorted Asap.
 
jluis

jluis

Member
Messages
1,703
lovellracing said:
Hey Jorge,
Gobbledygook to me I am still into Plugs and Points!!
Click to expand...

It's quite simple, the hydraulic block has some internal passages to relief the pressure on the brake like when the anti lock kicks in.
These passages are empty on a new block and the valves have to be open for the oil to get to it.
The electronics do that.

However you should be able to get a good pedal by normal bleeding while the vehicle is stationary as the valves are only operated normally when the car is under heavy braking and while on the move
 
IAB

IAB

Junior Member
Messages
30
philgarner said:
Excellent email Mark.

Sadly my car definitely has some service gaps so wiggle room definitely present. This is all making me regret going into GS ownership really :(
Click to expand...

My car has some service gaps, but the bushes are inspected annually by an independent government approved expert under strict conditions, more commonly called the MOT test. I phoned both Maserati head office and local dealer; both said that an MOT type inspection was suitable and best with the newer mechanical type turn plates. The Maserati position is worn bushes cause the damage and a visual inspection without any dismantling is ok.
 
mjheathcote

mjheathcote

Centenary Club
Messages
9,046
safrane said:
911or V8 vantage...or if funds are tight a newish Jag coupe... what with this and ball joints I really find little enjoyment owning the car now.
Click to expand...

That, is really sad to read :0036:

If they are saying it is the bush (expanding due to corrosion of the inner sleeve?) should we be looking at http://www.superpro.com.au/ (who pioneered poly suspension bushes with stainless sleeves I believe) commissioning a run of replacement bushes?

Is everybody getting a letter, or just the ones that have reported a failure?

EDIT: They also do replacement arms! http://www.superpro.com.au/products/replacement-arms-a-parts any of our Australian members live in Brisbane, Queensland?!

Also: http://www.superflex.co.uk/ and http://www.polybush.co.uk/ in the UK
 
D Walker

D Walker

Member
Messages
9,827
hladun said:
So the bushes get hard and the arms fail. Way back I postulated that the exhaust header heat hardened the bushings. If that's the case Maserati should take responsibility because it's a design problem. (In NA we have different headers and seemingly fewer failures) Also, if that was the case the arms should fail at their points of highest stress, that would be in the sleeve where it joins the arm. (Someone can do a finite element analysis to confirm this.) But the sleeves fail at the ridge on the back side which has VERY little stress. To me that's a CASTING problem and no amount of maintenance solves it.

P.S. When the bushing hardens it locks the arm. If you look at this FE diagram of a wrench you can see in the upper image the green area of highest stress. http://boltgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/Product/Work/Ready_Tools_D_FEA_Analysis_RO.jpg

P.P.S. With all the **** on this thread I hope someone actually reads this!
Click to expand...

It will be read - dont worry!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.