Warning!

[deano]

Good afternoon,just a reply to see where we are on this matter now,without trawling through 188 reply's,
Ive recieved a letter from maserati suggesting i have my 3200 checked for possible wishbone cracks,
The mot was today and yes its failed on a cracked n/s front wishbone,.
ill get images posted asap.

 

[highlander]

sorry to hear deano, quite a few of us (32, 42 & GS owners) have been through this
the letter you got is the agreed action between VOSA and maserati following our raising of the concern nearly a year ago. no-one on here feels that maserati basically blaming the owner for lack of maintenance is an acceptable outcome or reason to explain the cracks so we are all still very much stuck in the angry stage at the moment (think we need a counsellor to move us on to the next stage )
eurospares can order them in for you but these parts are not cheap..........if memory serves around £800. no idea on waiting time since they are to order, I waited 10 weeks in January
good luck

 

[deano]

Cheers highlander

 

[Evo Cymru]

My own letter still in transit, so thanks for clearly showing the number.
Jsut had a chat with Paul Green.
We need to go to a dealer and pay for the inspection which will take only 20-30 minutes. The dealers are fully aware of the facts and have diagrams of the issue. They clearly knwo they ar elooking for cracks and how to find them.

Strangely the letter does not mention work "crack". There must be hundreds of owners out there who do not frequent the internet. How many will see this note and just ignore it? I probably would have done.

What the ****! You have to pay for the bloody inspection as well!

 

[nicolasb32]

As a relatively new owner and member of this community, I am a bit puzzled by the tone of this thread.
1) Our cars are up to 16 years old! A suspension lever and bush cannot be expected to last an eternity. I had a look at my service history, and the parts in question where routinely checked and changed as needed of the 13 years and 49000 miles my car has been on the road. To be precise, on 5 occasions but never the same part.
2) We have some of the worst roads in Europe in the UK. Potholes and speed bumps are countless, and whatever care we are applying to our driving, we do get the odd knock regularly.
3) Our cars are sensitive beasts, we laugh/smile about their character regularly in this forum, and this is why we like them, there is a lot of talk about performance, cornering, speed, this all comes at a cost, especially if a car is not driven for longer periods of time.
4) Most of us bought used cars, however good the service history is, there is still the element of unknown as to the care given to the car by previous hands.

So whilst I understand the aggravation caused to cars and drivers during the mentioned cases, I don't understand the direction of this discussion thread. We wanted to know whether there was some form of defect. Maserati's position is clear: the components are serviceable items and a routine check is an integral part of the regular servicing schedule, this has always been the case.

Where does that live us? If the servicing has been done properly, and we experience an issue, than surely the culprit is at worst the party doing the service. By the way, this is the law I think. At worst, this action will have reminded less careful specialists of the procedure to follow, bonus for everyone.

Looking at the content in other threads, there seems to be a high disparity in the quality of the specialists or even main dealers, and for this there is a solution: walk away from your current provider if he failed to spot the issue and find someone better, making sure you let everyone know. For the DIYers among us, it may be worth going to see a specialist to have a second pairs of eyes perform a check.

I know I am not going to be popular on this one, but I felt I had to say something... And I don't work for Maserati

 

[D Walker]

What the ****! You have to pay for the bloody inspection as well!

Would be interesting to know how they are going to inspect the inside of the arm against the bush(20-30 mins - is there 8 with upper and lower = no more than 4 minutes each), oh they are not, they are going to take one look and say you have some rust on there, not serviceable, that will be £3200 for parts please!!!

 

[mchristyuk]

Nicolas,

We don't expect any of our parts to last an eternity, and the rapid rate at which ball joints fail mean the arms and bushes do get changed regularly... so no car is running 16 year old parts!

The bit your missing here is that we have cars which have been specifically inspected for this issue and found to be OK.. then before the next service interval have been found to have failed arms.

The failure appears to start from the inside of the wishbone to the outside, so there is no visual inspection you can do to check if your arm is on the way out apart from removing it from the car and removing the bushes.

Do you honestly think that's OK every 2000 miles or less?

Mark

 

[Emtee]

I find the comment about independents laughable. Independents know these cars far better than the dealer network!!

Several comments mention the next steps, both in terms of the part itself and also the stance of Maserati.

I'm not sure what his viewpoint would be, but a conversation with Phil Ward of AutoItalia would be an interesting next step? If he were prepared to run a piece it would certainly reach a lot of 'the community'.

I also wonder about a guerrilla approach? Maserati use all the social media channels to sell their dream. Repeated pictures of a broken suspension arm with no comment would soon p1ss them off and there would be nothing they can do to stop it.

 

[jluis]

I also wonder about a guerrilla approach? Maserati use all the social media channels to sell their dream. Repeated pictures of a broken suspension arm with no comment would soon p1ss them off and there would be nothing they can do to stop it.

This!

 

[GeoffK]

It seems I wasn't far off when I said you wouldn't get very far with Maserati or a government department, so instead of going around in circles slagging Maserati off perhaps someone well connected with the manufacture of car components, surely someone on here is, could look at some pressed steel arms?
It's been done before I am sure and would prove a more worthwhile use of intellectual input now that any hope anyone had of maserati admitting responsibility and supplying free checks and wishbones.

Geoff

 

[nicolasb32]

I did say I wasn't going to be popular

Mark, I think is is ok to check the bushes which are the cause of the issue if I am not mistaken, the specialists looking after my car managed to do this for the last 13 years, so this shouldn't be an issue. They are very good independents by the way Miles , english is not my first language, I thought the way I wrote this implied that not all specialists are careful, meaning that others are...
Mark, I didn't thank you for all your work on this by the way, I don't think a lot of people would have pursued the matter as you did.
Last post from me on the topic, thanks for your attention.

 

[mjheathcote]

This!

I'm on tweeter, but don't actually tweet myself.
Maserati are always tweeting, can you re-tweet or something and all those who follow Maserati get your tweet? that would really **** them off quickly!

 

[Emtee]

I did say I wasn't going to be popular

They are very good independents by the way Miles , english is not my first language, I thought the way I wrote this implied that not all specialists are careful, meaning that others are...

Hi Nicolas, I wasn't referring you your post, I was referring to the letter that Mark received from the DVSA. sorry for the confusion.

By by the way your comments are, to me at least, entirely valid, though arguable I think it's fair to say. This isn't a black and white situation. Age, poor servicing and poor inspection procedures can all be legitimately argued, however there is also a dangerous design flaw involved, which cannot be ignored. The nature of the failure and the cars it has happened to prove this.

 

[nicolasb32]

I just posted a question regarding this topic on the french maseratitude forum. Perhaps they came across the same stuff.

This wasn't my last post on the topic after all

 

[spkennyuk]

As a relatively new owner and member of this community, I am a bit puzzled by the tone of this thread.
1) Our cars are up to 16 years old! A suspension lever and bush cannot be expected to last an eternity. I had a look at my service history, and the parts in question where routinely checked and changed as needed of the 13 years and 49000 miles my car has been on the road. To be precise, on 5 occasions but never the same part.
2) We have some of the worst roads in Europe in the UK. Potholes and speed bumps are countless, and whatever care we are applying to our driving, we do get the odd knock regularly.
3) Our cars are sensitive beasts, we laugh/smile about their character regularly in this forum, and this is why we like them, there is a lot of talk about performance, cornering, speed, this all comes at a cost, especially if a car is not driven for longer periods of time.
4) Most of us bought used cars, however good the service history is, there is still the element of unknown as to the care given to the car by previous hands.

So whilst I understand the aggravation caused to cars and drivers during the mentioned cases, I don't understand the direction of this discussion thread. We wanted to know whether there was some form of defect. Maserati's position is clear: the components are serviceable items and a routine check is an integral part of the regular servicing schedule, this has always been the case.

Where does that live us? If the servicing has been done properly, and we experience an issue, than surely the culprit is at worst the party doing the service. By the way, this is the law I think. At worst, this action will have reminded less careful specialists of the procedure to follow, bonus for everyone.

Looking at the content in other threads, there seems to be a high disparity in the quality of the specialists or even main dealers, and for this there is a solution: walk away from your current provider if he failed to spot the issue and find someone better, making sure you let everyone know. For the DIYers among us, it may be worth going to see a specialist to have a second pairs of eyes perform a check.

I know I am not going to be popular on this one, but I felt I had to say something... And I don't work for Maserati

Im gathering you have not read the whole thread. Maserati Failed to spot the signs during routine service according to their own service schedule.

Every other manufacturer that has had wishbone failure either just cracking or cracking to the point of detachment has recalled their vehicles and replaced the affected parts.

The majority of the cars affected are well under 16 years old. So while some of your points may be valid do you really think the dvsa and maserati are acting in the best interest and looking after the safety of maserati owners ?

We already know Mercedes and subura and others changed cracked wishbones and wishbones that were at risk of cracking. It doesnt matter if this was to keep up their reputation or if was for the safety of their customers. The fact is they changed the parts required.

The fact is that there is the potential for somebody being killed as a result of maserati and the dvsa sitting on their hands for nearly 12 months and the eventual agreed action is lower than any other manufacturer with the same or similar reported issue has implemented.

When somebody is killed as a result of theses parts then the authorities will view this matter in a different light.

It would have been quite simple for maserati to state that the bushes need replacing every 3 years or X number of miles the fact they have not suggests that they expect the parts to remain in good order for some time.

 

[mjheathcote]

Talk would be different if the cost of the wishbones were more reasonable. How does the selling price compare to other manufacturers of similar design/material? I realise quantity of manufacture will also have an effect too.

 

[allandwf]

.......and also the nearly doubling in price once they became an issue!!

 

[mjheathcote]

Indeed.

 

[mchristyuk]

It's DVSA Monday everybody.. lets see what the email post has for us today!

Looks like Maserati did the absolute minimum they had to under the legislation.. so the DVSA are well happy with their hard work...

Mr Christy

Thank you for your email as attached and I note your comments.

I cannot comment on alleged statements from Maserati.


The purpose of the MOT test is to ensure that cars, other light vehicles (including some light goods vehicles), private buses and motor bicycles over a prescribed age are checked at least once a year to see that they comply with key roadworthiness and environmental requirements in the Road Vehicle Construction and Use Regulations 1986 and the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 as amended. It utilizes basic inspection methods to cover a wide range of vehicles and supports but does not replace more detailed periodic maintenance inspections.

Visual inspections do not always portray the full extent of wear and tear in a component and I would refer to my previous comments on this. Bushes, on any component, are by nature partially concealed. I note your comments on contamination and expansion but these types of bushes also suffer from material degradation (such as loss of elasticity) and bonding separation which can lead to movement and hammering within the housing. These conditions are not always readily accessible and often require more in depth inspections and, in some instances, removal of components.

My experiences are bushes show signs of deterioration and it is best practice to note and record component condition so vehicle presenters can make a decision on how to progress. This is especially relevant in respect of high mileage and older vehicles. It should be noted the average age of these vehicles is approx 14 years and an average mileage of approx 70,000 miles.

Bush wear has been considered the primary cause of arm failure and the manufacturer has acted to ensure vehicle keepers are made aware of this and the need to ensure these bushes are checked for overall condition. This is the minimum requirement under legislation and the manufacturer has complied with this.

Regards

John

 

[mchristyuk]

And me being me and realising the DVSA aren't worth the office space they're given felt I just had to fire off a reply... though I do feel like I'm in some horrible feedback loop.. but this is probably how all governmental departments work in the hope that people will go away and leave them to get on with achieving not a lot..

Hi John,

Thank you for your email.

Had the DVSA investigated this rather than relying on Maserati's word then the DVSA would have been more than aware that despite the age and mileage of the cars that none of these cars could be running arms or bushes that are that old. The Maserati 3200/4200/GranSport family feature integrated ball joints which wear rather rapidly. This means that suspension arms are quite a frequently changed item. The new arms come with bushes already inserted. Therefore the age and mileage of the car is irrelevant.

Secondly, again if the DVSA had investigated this they would have been aware that to date it appears only cars in Northern Europe (France/Germany/Holland/UK) that appear to be suffering this issue. It would be laughable to suggest that Northern Europeans owners and Northern European garages are the only people to not follow "correct maintenance" procedures.

A far more reasonable suggestion would be that the damp climate of Northern Europe accelerates the deterioration of the bushes, which then leads to the wishbones cracking and failing.

And I feel I'm repeating myself here, but I'll do so anyway. Cars with FULL MASERATI service history have suffered cracking and the majority of others BETWEEN service periods. Cars which were specifically checked for bush deterioration and wishbone cracking were then found damaged at the next service interval.

Based on factual evidence it would appear Maserati's suggested service intervals are too great for these cars to be safely used on the road no matter how they are inspected and instead they should be checked at least every 2,000 miles.

I don't think anybody in the right might could possibly agree that service intervals that short are acceptable for a car that needs to be used on the British road network. It points to safety critical parts not being up to the job they were designed to do in the market they are being sold.

The "investigation" by the DVSA and Maserati has ensured that we are no further away from a fatal accident occurring on our roads because of this problem. I doubt anybody at Maserati will let that play on their mind though.

Mark