STOLEN RECOVERED 2007 MASERATI GRANSPORT 4.2 V8 ..no reserve!!!!

conaero

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£5k for a 70k miler 03 4200 with a stuffed engine and a cat D?

So at this rate it will go for £6k, require £4k engine plus £1200 fitting so that's £11k and its carrying a cat so it's worth 75-80% of market value.

Where's the margin?

Shiltech have an identically car up at £13,500 which will sell for £12,000-12,500:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/4041976.htm

This trader is starting to annoy me!
 

hodroyd

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14,150
I was always led to believe that a Cat-D reduced the retail value of the car by up to 50%, dependant on condition. This would make this 4200 unviable if that is the case. Has anyone any direct experience of Cat-D pricing?
 

nigw

Member
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904
I think the problem is that in addition to the 20-25% lower value, you'll also be selling to a massively reduced market as a lot of people won't touch a cat-listed car. Perhaps not a concern if you plan to keep it long term, but an issue if you might want to sell before long or may need to sell quickly.
 

hodroyd

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14,150
I agree Nige, many people I know would not touch a cat listed car and this dealer appears to want to hide the fact that they may be Cat listed, only mentioning Stolen Recovered, which I think is a con' and he is defo hiding the true picture.
 

stradaman

New Member
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376
Stolen recovered is a seperate cat, and can be removed, once recovered. It then becomes Cat D for example, if its sustained damage. So a stolen car, once recovered, is taken of the register, and no one will ever know.
As the engine is US, it will be on a Cat D. So, he is telling fibs.

Andy.
 

conaero

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Stolen recovered is a seperate cat, and can be removed, once recovered. It then becomes Cat D for example, if its sustained damage. So a stolen car, once recovered, is taken of the register, and no one will ever know.
As the engine is US, it will be on a Cat D. So, he is telling fibs.

Andy.

Stolen recovered carries a Cat X I believe according to what lord high executioner Loz told me and yes it can be removed.
 

hodroyd

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14,150
Yes Andy, I think this guy is a bit of a conman, definitely not straight talking and only interested in getting as much as he can regardless of what description he puts on stuff. As usual BUYER BEWARE!!!

R
 

conaero

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Yes Andy, I think this guy is a bit of a conman, definitely not straight talking and only interested in getting as much as he can regardless of what description he puts on stuff. As usual BUYER BEWARE!!!

R

You cant blame him for maximising his profit, but there are correct ways of going about it.

There are plenty more out there just a matter of waiting.

The guy in the office next door has just hydrolocked his 330 M Sport BMW. He had it trailered to the local BMW dealership and they had a dozen other hydrolocked, so there is no shortage.
 

stradaman

New Member
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376
Just seen the news on TV, and the roads in UK! There was a silly idiot in an Audi TT, with water going over his bonnet, as he drove through the flooded road. Any moment, bang!!

Andy.
 

conaero

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Get his number plate, write to the DVLA requesting his address as he has been illegally parking on your land, they will have to supply it, then you can contact him and arrange to buy the car back before it goes to salvage and you might even get it without the Cat being applied.

Bung him 500 sheets, and everyones happy!
 

lozcb

Member
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12,565
I agree Nige, many people I know would not touch a cat listed car and this dealer appears to want to hide the fact that they may be Cat listed, only mentioning Stolen Recovered, which I think is a con' and he is defo hiding the true picture.


I do get erked occasionally when people pen their suppositions without having full view of the actual facts (no offence Rob) but to understand the write off market fully takes a little time and a few visits to the salvage yards, whilst i wouldn,t myself advocate doing something that was very severely damaged , there's no harm playing around on the fringes of the lightly damaged stuff , that way you are in full control that you wont put something thats dodgy or ill repaired back on the market that shouldn't be

Andy was spot on with valuations being approximately 20% less for a Cat D and 30% less for a Cat C


The original idea of catergorising damaged vehicles was a good one and served 2 main purposes (a) to prevent the cut and shut scenario and 9b) to return/recycle cars safely back into the market place whilst at the same time aiding the insurance companies ro regain some of their losses, it was/is controlled by the insurance comapanies themselves, as its they that decide what catergory to place upon a damaged vehicle.

Sounds good doesn't it and it was for a few years , untill enviromental conditions ie ice snow floods caused extra-ordinary high losses , hence the need for greed to recover those losses as quick as possible rather than wait for the following years premiums to rise and regulate the profit levels as it used to be , Insurance companies started to move away from their very own guidelines when it suited them especially with high end expensive vehicles , now its quite common to see highend cars that should be Cat C at the very least with a D marker or no marker at all , thus they can re sell the vehicle for higher gains and puts a car possibly back on the market that possibly should not be their , blame is on the Insurance companies not the repairer or re-seller

You would actually be surprised how big the resale market is for Catergorised cars damaged or repaired , people are a lot more savvy now than they used to be , when you visit the salvage yards they are litterally full of joe public aswell as dealers
cars are getting written off really easily now , what with the advent of Gap insurance which reduces the insurance repair guideline costs of repair to return the damaged car back to the road (generally 40%) of vehicle trade value down to just 20%

For example a new lightly damaged £80K vehicle will have an approximate trade value of £70K , Taken out with gap insurance when new will have a repair limit of £14K , now take into consideration accident costs , tow charges, storage , replacement vehicle costs , assessor costs , parts , labour , wont take long to superceed that limit at maindealer prices .

So the car gets a Cat D marker and someone else buys it / repairs it with, possibly good used parts and back street labour charges and everyones a winner

I havent got a problem or see a stigma attatched to that , in fact i see it as a whole life times worth of plastic bottle recycling all in one go , hence automatic membership into the green party


regards loz
 

nigw

Member
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904
I do get erked occasionally when people pen their suppositions without having full view of the actual facts (no offence Rob) but to understand the write off market fully takes a little time and a few visits to the salvage yards, whilst i wouldn,t myself advocate doing something that was very severely damaged , there's no harm playing around on the fringes of the lightly damaged stuff , that way you are in full control that you wont put something thats dodgy or ill repaired back on the market that shouldn't be

Loz, I don't think anyone is questioning that cat c or cat d cars can be a good buy and often have been subject to only minor damage, just that the market takes a view on listed cars both in terms of price and desireability. If you have photos of the damage and repair this goes some way to addressing this, but there will still be a swathe of buyers that can't be bothered with something that's been damaged. Whilst they may then buy another car that isn't listed but has had similar or greater damage, buyers can be happily oblivious to this!

The category listing is only insurance industry listing - there's nothing "legal" about it. Contrary to popular belief, even a cat b car can be put back on the road - it's essentially a code of conduct, nothing more.

The salvage market is probably buoyant at the moment partly due to higher number of foreign buyers (especially Poland) - once the car leaves the UK the marker is essentially 'lost'.
 

lozcb

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12,565
Loz, I don't think anyone is questioning that cat c or cat d cars can be a good buy and often have been subject to only minor damage, just that the market takes a view on listed cars both in terms of price and desireability. If you have photos of the damage and repair this goes some way to addressing this, but there will still be a swathe of buyers that can't be bothered with something that's been damaged. Whilst they may then buy another car that isn't listed but has had similar or greater damage, buyers can be happily oblivious to this!

The category listing is only insurance industry listing - there's nothing "legal" about it. Contrary to popular belief, even a cat b car can be put back on the road - it's essentially a code of conduct, nothing more.

The salvage market is probably buoyant at the moment partly due to higher number of foreign buyers (especially Poland) - once the car leaves the UK the marker is essentially 'lost'.


Weve had this convo before Nige and i totally agree with you , but increasingly now im seeing youngsters at the auctions 20 somehtings girls even, that are all aware that buying a car needing minor repairs is good value and gives them a newer plate , something that they are really consious of

The stigma thing is dying and really only applies to the older generation and era when it was supposed to have meant something serious , it all really boils down to buyer beware same as it always has really


regards loz


regards loz
 

stradaman

New Member
Messages
376
There are a few cars over hear, that are obviously not road worthy. Cars that are not straight, known in the trade as 'crabbing'. Seen lots and lots over the years. You can see the driver, fighting with the steering, to keep it straight. Then at a roundabout, the thing wonders all over, and cocks a wheel up! Why oh why, is this industry, not policed properly?

Andy.
 

safrane

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16,866
It is rather funny that many people slate a repaired car yet think a classic thats full of new parts/panels/etc that can reach £100k+ is fine.
 

conaero

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It is rather funny that many people slate a repaired car yet think a classic thats full of new parts/panels/etc that can reach £100k+ is fine.

Very valid point Peter.

The way I see it is that insurance companies are getting lazy and dont want to incur storage and hire car costs, so they just write them off and ship the problem off to someone else.

As Loz says the stigma is dying out. Look at the car we are talking about in this post. It needs an engine swap, should it be worth 20% less than a car that has required a new engine and been replaced by the owner...no.
 

nigw

Member
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904
Very valid point Peter.

The way I see it is that insurance companies are getting lazy and dont want to incur storage and hire car costs, so they just write them off and ship the problem off to someone else.

It's not laziness though, it's almost the opposite; they're more conscious of their margins so are spending far more time and effort predicting all their likely costs rather than just the repair (including their admin time, storage, delays, hire car costs etc) and therefore are able to more precisely work out the point at which it's financially better to write a car off. It does mean that because all costs are now being better taken into account, the damage itself can sometimes be fairly minor. Also, whilst the salvage prices are high, as they are at the moment, the sums are skewed more in favour of writing off.