Clutch replacement.

[lozcb]

Re the home clutch install , the problems i see are some of the items can be checked on the sd2/3 whilst stripped down , like the F1 sensor and the clutch sensor , then there's the balancing , best to be done on the ramp during install , incase changes have to be made ,

Would be a right pain in the rearend , if you had completed the install at home and changes had to be made or parts re-installed once it was all assembled , only way round that would be to renew the lot

Clutch plate
Flywheel
Thrust bearing
Spiggot Bearing
F1 sensor
Clutch sensor
Support bearing

That way you could alleviate any problems and just get the electronic side set up , ie.....Balancing, kiss point , Pis point etc , and to boot , get the tech to set up the sd2/3 in the car whilst you test drive and set up the gearbox to suit your driving style , if using the mobile guy i would also suggest intergrating into the agreed price a 2nd visit to reset after 500 miles


regards loz

 

[budgie]

I had mine done last year by Emblem and they did a superb job, my flywheel was ok but they replaced everything else including the slave cylinder, I had strange problem (not the reason I did the clutch it needed doing anyway, well nearly) in as much as, sometimes when i went back to the car the clutch pedal was half way down still worked, no loss of fluid, it turned out be the slave was not venting correctly this is know problem and there is a Maserati fix which entails drilling a small hole or enlarging one in the slave cylnder can’t remember. Emblem replaced it anyway. Maserati must have fixed it because the slave is a different part number now.

Was just speaking to Warren the guy with mobile SD2 service (see my previous post) and he tells me it very rare that it actually needs balancing at all (like one in hundred, mine did not need to be) and even then it is only to stop the car resonating slightly at 3 very specific rev's which he quoted but I did not note (will ask him tomorrow), which is says is barely noticeable,

My view is that if the clutch is out it is probably due more to the bad manufacture of the clutch, than anything else and if it did need balancing, it could probably be cured by replacing the clutch with one that was not wonky, for example if tyres were perfect they would not need to be balanced…

I wonder if you could check the clutch before you fitted it with a wheel balancer instead of SD2 (I bet you could) cos if it's out it's out, no matter what is turning it you no longer balance wheels on cars do you .. anyone got any comments.

Yep it is the same guy I was telling Conaero about (i think is ex Maranello) "still will not hold that against him" until I've met him tomorrow he is ***t hot on electrics so I am told and has access to all the wiiring diagrams............

 

[JAGPURR]

Like I said,
Vaelo must do some balancing at the factory, even a clutch for a skoda will arrive pre balanced, they can't charge that much and do nothing with it! So if that part of the install can be ignored then I see no reason why it can't be done on a diy basis and then driven along to a dealer or indi and get them to set up the kiss point and reset everything, even if they charge a couple of hundred it still could mean a saving of well over a grand!
By the way surely if you are only changing either the thrust or housing bearing then you don't need to disturb the clutch so don't need to go through the sd2 buisiness ? Or if you are removing the clutch and refitting the same one, then the same applies as long as you mark it before removing.
Keith

 

[lozcb]

Like I said,
Vaelo must do some balancing at the factory, even a clutch for a skoda will arrive pre balanced, they can't charge that much and do nothing with it! So if that part of the install can be ignored then I see no reason why it can't be done on a diy basis and then driven along to a dealer or indi and get them to set up the kiss point and reset everything, even if they charge a couple of hundred it still could mean a saving of well over a grand!
By the way surely if you are only changing either the thrust or housing bearing then you don't need to disturb the clutch so don't need to go through the sd2 buisiness ? Or if you are removing the clutch and refitting the same one, then the same applies as long as you mark it before removing.
Keith

God i wish it was that easy Keith , but the thought of all that work replacing a new clutch to find out later that you have vibration issues would be too much to bear , for the sake of saving £600 . dont get me wrong im all for saving money but i'd hate doing it twice , as i mentioned on an earlier post , my local MR clutch center attempted a manual 4200 about a year ago , it still had to go to the dealer to be finally sorted , not sure what the issues were , but i know they lost money and wont touch another maserati yet alone and F1 , i'll do some digging with Myles and see if i can get hm to reveal some answers

regards loz

 

[lozcb]

Just spoke to Myles on this , his answer to me was that they fit fine balance weights to every single clutch they fit , this ensures that the vibration/resonace issues at the Maserati rev parameter ranges of 1500 , 3000 and 4500, are negligent or non existant, he also said that on the clutch there is a yellow dot mark which has to be set 180 degrees opposite to the yellow dot on the flywheel DONT MATCH THEM UP , this ensures that vibration is to a minimum , but not non existant and can be lived with in most/some cases , he also said that some Dealers /indies dont have balancng equipment , but to ensure your engine and drive train are 100% then its best to have it balanced , Hope this helps to clear things up a little

regards loz

 

[Parisien]

As ever Loz......for the truly complex stuff you do need experienced, well rehearsed, think on their feet, properly equipped guys working on the Maserati range.................makes sense, saves money in short and medium term....thank heavens for our indie network! And occasionally main dealer network....


P

 

[conaero]

I had mine done last year by Emblem and they did a superb job, my flywheel was ok but they replaced everything else including the slave cylinder, I had strange problem (not the reason I did the clutch it needed doing anyway, well nearly) in as much as, sometimes when i went back to the car the clutch pedal was half way down still worked, no loss of fluid, it turned out be the slave was not venting correctly this is know problem and there is a Maserati fix which entails drilling a small hole or enlarging one in the slave cylnder can’t remember. Emblem replaced it anyway. Maserati must have fixed it because the slave is a different part number now.

Was just speaking to Warren the guy with mobile SD2 service (see my previous post) and he tells me it very rare that it actually needs balancing at all (like one in hundred, mine did not need to be) and even then it is only to stop the car resonating slightly at 3 very specific rev's which he quoted but I did not note (will ask him tomorrow), which is says is barely noticeable,

My view is that if the clutch is out it is probably due more to the bad manufacture of the clutch, than anything else and if it did need balancing, it could probably be cured by replacing the clutch with one that was not wonky, for example if tyres were perfect they would not need to be balanced…

I wonder if you could check the clutch before you fitted it with a wheel balancer instead of SD2 (I bet you could) cos if it's out it's out, no matter what is turning it you no longer balance wheels on cars do you .. anyone got any comments.

Yep it is the same guy I was telling Conaero about (i think is ex Maranello) "still will not hold that against him" until I've met him tomorrow he is ***t hot on electrics so I am told and has access to all the wiiring diagrams............

If you could point him this way, we will offer him free advertising on the site for a little bit of discount or same as the dealer rates maybe? Can you also ask him if he has the clutch balancing module?

 

[Parisien]

Seeems to be some contradictions out there guys...............................one saying needs doing rarely...other saying....ALL need done?!


P

 

[lozcb]

If you could point him this way, we will offer him free advertising on the site for a little bit of discount or same as the dealer rates maybe? Can you also ask him if he has the clutch balancing module?

I already asked re the balancing tool matt and NO he hasn't got it , its £5K to buy so not surprising , it would take a long time to get that kind of money back , for a mobile whereas the diag costs altho greater are more easily recoverable

regards loz

 

[Parisien]

I already asked re the balancing tool matt and NO he hasn't got it

regards loz

Ahheeemmmmm..thats one good reason not to be offering balancing!


P

 

[conaero]

Seeems to be some contradictions out there guys...............................one saying needs doing rarely...other saying....ALL need done?!


P

So an independent mechanic says it rarely needs doing and the dealers and indies say it does need doing, hum would not be the dealers guaranteeing work for themselves would it, no, who would do such a thing?

 

[JAGPURR]

Well who knows?
I hear what you are saying Loz and unfortunatly (or maybe not ) mine is fairly new so hope I don't have to find out the hard way for another 30k miles. But like I said I am pretty sure my clutch has no weights on and I definetly don't have any vibration issues. Still it's good to ask these questions and I hope we get to the bottom of it eventually. I always remember car manufacturers wanting to seal bonnets shut and make it illegal for anyone else but them to work on our cars, and they were prevented by goverments after an outcry from the likes of us. They seem to be getting their own way by putting that much technology on board for no other reason than to make thing as hard as possible for us to do anything. On the latest cars you need a special machine to reset to calipers when changing brake pads, where wil they stop?
Keith

 

[conaero]

Hum, I am starting to smell a rat here. I mean, the SD2/3 is something like £20-£30k and so Mike Roberts told me the hardware is a joke. Ok they can say that the software development is expensive, but I think not. They are only protecting their marque by making it as hard as possible to for anyone else to work on them.

With this clutch issue, what we need is the opinion of an ex Maserati mechanic, someone that has fitted many and no longer works for Maserati so has an unbais opinion. Anyone know one?

 

[Parisien]

So an independent mechanic says it rarely needs doing and the dealers and indies say it does need doing, hum would not be the dealers guaranteeing work for themselves would it, no, who would do such a thing?

By that assumption.....the indies are colluding......!!!......interesting to find out!

P

 

[lozcb]

Hum, I am starting to smell a rat here. I mean, the SD2/3 is something like £20-£30k and so Mike Roberts told me the hardware is a joke. Ok they can say that the software development is expensive, but I think not. They are only protecting their marque by making it as hard as possible to for anyone else to work on them.

With this clutch issue, what we need is the opinion of an ex Maserati mechanic, someone that has fitted many and no longer works for Maserati so has an unbais opinion. Anyone know one?

I dont think so Matt personally, one mobile mechanic doesn't have a lot to loose in the event there are problems after an install, whereas a dealer/indie have hard earned reputations to lose if it was found that they omitted to install the standard that is required (agreed some of it is over the top) but this forum would be the first to expose a shoddy operation , may well be the case that 5 out of 10 may be okay without balancing , but for my baby i would want the full criteria carried out altho i would attest to get it done as cheap as possible , this is possibly one myth that im happy to pay for , the consequences of not doing so are chancy and possibly expensive

regards loz

 

[MAF260]

I certainly wouldn't want to fit a clutch to a Maser, especially when reading all of the above posts and seeing how complex it can be. The days of balancing Escort, Manta & Sunbeam gearboxes on my knees whilst taking them in/out of cars are well and truly behind me and weren't that much fun at the time! I'd hand my car over to somebody qualified to fit it & set it up correctly. That way if there were any issues later on there would only be one place to go. Taking half the underside of the car off for access and then trailering it to a garage afterwards anyway seems like false economy to me - factor in the number of hours spent and all of a sudden the cost of paying a garage to change the clutch starts to seem reasonable.

With regards the suspected collusion I can understand these businesses wanting to protect their customer base when there are so few cars they can use their very expensive equipment on. I'm not sure how many cars in the UK require SD2/3 diagnostics etc. but it's very likely to be less than the number of Ford Fiestas sold in any one month!

 

[conaero]

Hum, I am still not convinced either way. I have emailed Mike so a little more background info should help.

Its not the money, its the principle for me. If my clutch was to start slipping tomorrow, I think I would have a go at it. Worst case, it would have to go and be balance.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

[Parisien]

Yes guys, there comes a point when cheap is NOT actually cheap.............but a mere down payment on actually getting the job done correctly ( ie you then pay more than the expensive quote was in the end to put it all right!!!) and with faith in the guys who've done it plus.....peace of mind......the last mentioned.........is almost more valuable than the actual job in the first place!!!!


I don't really mean collusion in its purest sense, but if the indies have similarly invested 20-30K in set up costs for the SD2/3 equipment, then we as car owners have to give them recogniton and re-compense for doing so!

As Loz says........in this very small "goldfish bowl" of UK Maseratisti, a dud job soon hits the headlines!


P

 

[safrane]

If the balancing kit cost over 5k and indi's knew it was not required...why would they buy one?

 

[conaero]

If the balancing kit cost over 5k and indi's knew it was not required...why would they buy one?

This is what I would like to clear up. I am sure the clutch does need balancing, I am just trying to work out if they all do and if they are not, what is the consequence?

The indie might say he has the balancing kit, but does he? He might just say he has and knows that they dont actually need balancing. Not saying this is so, but its possible and we are the mugs for not questioning it.