CLOSED Brexit Poll

[conaero]

Regardless of the result we will need to deal with Europe the only question is will the costs go up or down.

The one thing that worries me is that currently the EU support a lot of community / environmental things like local museums, areas or natural beauty etc, which I know come out of the money we pay in, but on past experience no UK government would use any money they save on these areas. The money would be badly spent preparing up inefficient government departments.

The National Lottery is responsible for most of this success and will continue to do so.

 

[Doohickey]

The National Lottery is responsible for most of this success and will continue to do so.

We do get a lot of European money but it's spent in areas of deprivation such as South Wales and South Yorkshire. There are places which have had a huge injection of money which has resulted in a lot of development taking place that wouldn't have if we had had to rely on our own government. There are a lot of places where employment has been generated as a result of the funding from the EU. It will be interesting to see if Aston continue with their plans to build a factory in South Wales if EU funds are no longer available.

 

[rossyl]

Cameron hasn't got the balls to serve notice.
Here's a test, go to your boss and say here's my notice unless you give me a 10% pay rise. He'll say goodbye, you just won't do it unless you have a concrete offer of employment elsewhere and that's what we can't afford to risk.

He cannot have a referendum and ignore the outcome.

Vote Leave and it will be a notice served.

One if my main reasons for voting Remain is the very issue you state.
You cannot afford to Leave if you don't have a concrete offer elsewhere.
That's exactly what we'll do if we Vote Leave.

 

[rossyl]

Another way to look at it.

Since the mid-1990s what has been so bad about being in the EU?
Bar a global recession things have economically been great.
War within Europe has not existed.
Holidays to Europe are easier.
Taking your car into Europe is easy.
Buying parts for your Maserati isn't on the receiving end of a 20% import duty.
The booze cruise to Calais has saved a lot of cash.
The polish builder did a great job on my parents house, after a bunch of London pikey builders stole from them.
I can afford a cleaner!
Wine from France, Spain and Italy is not subject to any tax.

Why lose are make expensive all of the above?

The NHS being screwed and Schools being overrun is not a direct consequence of being in the EU.

Immigrants from Africa and the middle East and India will all continue to come here. Immigration is not solved.

I just don't see the benefit of voting leave.

Instead I see comments like "trough eaters" "bloody Europeans" "Brussels diplomats". That's meaningless and xenophobic nonsense. Maybe you should set your Italian car on fire in protest to those bloomin Europeans?

Why can't anyone wanting to Leave tell me exactly what the benefit is? Because at the moment I'm pretty happy with what I've got.

 

[dem maser]

Another way to look at it.

Since the mid-1990s what has been so bad about being in the EU?
Bar a global recession things have economically been great.
War within Europe has not existed.
Holidays to Europe are easier.
Taking your car into Europe is easy.
Buying parts for your Maserati isn't on the receiving end of a 20% import duty.
The booze cruise to Calais has saved a lot of cash.
The polish builder builder did a great job on my parents house, after a bunch of London pikey builders stole from them.
I can afford a cleaner!
Wine from France, Spain and Italy is not subject to any tax.

Why lose are make expensive all of the above?

The NHS being screwed and Schools being overrun is not a direct consequence of being in the EU.

Immigrants from Africa and the middle East and India will all continue to come here. Immigration is not solved.

I just don't see the benefit of voting leave.

Instead I see comments like "trough eaters" "bloody Europeans" "Brussels diplomats". That's meaningless and xenophobic nonsense. Maybe you should set your Italian car on fire in protest to those bloomin Europeans?

Why can't anyone wanting to Leave tell me exactly what the benefit is? Because at the moment I'm pretty happy with what I've got.

I do tend to lean towards stay than leave.
Still 60\40 though....not made up my mind 100%

 

[Chrisbassett]

Brexit Poll

I'm for staying. I can't see any economic benefit from leaving (the money we pay is peanuts comparatively - and we would most likely need to carry on paying something if we want a trade deal. The free-market benefits are massive and keep a lot of companies wanting to be in the UK); the laws from Europe are mostly about consumer and worker protection and standardisation of things (yes, I know there are things like unfair distribution of fishing quotas, but that's mostly down to our own governments crappy negotiating at the time); immigration isn't really a problem here, all I've seen is a bunch of nimby-ism on that front...and if we threaten to close our borders, what do you honestly think will happen over the next two years?

Leaving would mean a huge gap in our own laws that are currently covered by EU regulations. These have never been written into our own law, and as I said cover mostly consumer and worker protection. What a wonderful opportunity for the politicians in this country to royally screw us over with pressure from big business lobbyists!!!

No, I don't want to see any of that, so I'm voting to stay.

 

[TridentTested]

Another way to look at it.

Since the mid-1990s what has been so bad about being in the EU?
Bar a global recession things have economically been great.
War within Europe has not existed.
Holidays to Europe are easier.
Taking your car into Europe is easy.
Buying parts for your Maserati isn't on the receiving end of a 20% import duty.
The booze cruise to Calais has saved a lot of cash.
The polish builder did a great job on my parents house, after a bunch of London pikey builders stole from them.
I can afford a cleaner!
Wine from France, Spain and Italy is not subject to any tax.

Why lose are make expensive all of the above?

The NHS being screwed and Schools being overrun is not a direct consequence of being in the EU.

Immigrants from Africa and the middle East and India will all continue to come here. Immigration is not solved.

I just don't see the benefit of voting leave.

Instead I see comments like "trough eaters" "bloody Europeans" "Brussels diplomats". That's meaningless and xenophobic nonsense. Maybe you should set your Italian car on fire in protest to those bloomin Europeans?

Why can't anyone wanting to Leave tell me exactly what the benefit is? Because at the moment I'm pretty happy with what I've got.

Excellent synopsis

 

[conaero]

We did fine for centuries before the Eu came along, we will be fine when it's gone too.

Ok there may well be a down turn but we have to take the long term view of what is best for us and best for our future generations.

War in Europe is not an issue nobody wants it so it won't happen

We are like the fifth biggest economy globally, do we want to give it away, no.

Looking back to my science schools days and breaking it down to brass tacks it's simple osmosis, the transfer of a stronger solution into a weaker solution via a semi permiable membrane.

It's the same with Europe. Belgium is the membrane, UK, Germany and France are the stronger solutions, the Ex Eastern block is the weaker and Europe wants everyone to be equal by taking from the rich and giving to the poor. So if you care not for the decades of history, lives given defending our sovereignty, working hard and building a welfare state to look after you when your old and a free health care service, then sure, vote in.

The current situation to stem African and Middle East migrants are being held in Turkey is a time bomb waiting to go off. In 10 years time when Turkey finally comes into The EU (it is very much wanted despite what we are being told) this will come back and bite us on the ****.

We are GREAT BRITAIN, we should remain that way!

 

[rockits]

I agree we have done pretty well for hundreds of years before the EU come around. If we had a better standing in the EU & had entered & negotiated a better deal in the first place I would say remain.

As the way we entered and the footing we stand on within the EU is not great then I say exit. We need to become leaner, stronger and better in all that we do. If a 5 year downturn & some real pain during that period means we will be a better entity in 10/15/20+ years time then it is worth the pain and I'm all for it.

Let's get back to some grass routes back to basics business, banking, saving, investment and invest more in our future. Weed out the jokers and hangers on so the true creative minds & real able people can take us onwards & upwards. Let's expose the layers of inefficiencies we have in various businesses.

We have had it far too easy for far too long and that is not a good thing long term. There needs to be a big correction in many people's attitudes to hard work, materialistic consumerism, saving, investment with more realistic & simple levels of expectation with strong morals, ethics & values.

The rubbish attitudes to get rich quick, shortcut to success, greed is good is causing us issues now & the side effects of this will be long reaching for generations. I don't agree with much of new age/media businesses that lose money year on year but are worth billions.

This is not entirely an EU issue but we are shackled more with it being attached. We have more chance of resolving our issues without the EU than with it. Let's go it alone and make Britain Great again. The EU couldn't give two hoots about us. Let's show them what we are made of.

 

[conaero]

Rock its I like your closing argument/challenge...nail on the head fella, there is nothing to be scared off and it may empower the country to better things.

 

[rockits]

I thought so

I know none of us including policticians and economists actually know what will happen if we leave as it is impossible to say and guess. The safe option is to stay and the risk is less.

However why is the safe option the best option. The fear of the unknown is not an excuse or reason to stay. Some of the greatest discoveries in humankind have taken place venturing into the unknown. We shouldn't be afraid of it. We are a strong economy fundamentally with great skills & abilities. People, businesses, countries and the EU will want to buy & deal with us if we have things they want at prices they want to pay. Vice versa we will offer to buy the products/services we want to buy at the prices we want to if the EU supply them. We won't need EU membership to do this. Will either say no sorry your not a.EU member state. No, course they won't. The US think they are stronger than they are.

We do need to become stronger. Let's make some stuff again. Stop buying cheap imports. Let's make our own better stuff & pay more for it because it is britsh. Lets be more self sufficient. It is hard but possible. However there has to be a majority desire to do this and that must come from the top down.

It will not be easy....but easy is boring!

 

[alfatwo]

I agree we have done pretty well for hundreds of years before the EU come around. If we had a better standing in the EU & had entered & negotiated a better deal in the first place I would say remain.

As the way we entered and the footing we stand on within the EU is not great then I say exit. We need to become leaner, stronger and better in all that we do. If a 5 year downturn & some real pain during that period means we will be a better entity in 10/15/20+ years time then it is worth the pain and I'm all for it.

Let's get back to some grass routes back to basics business, banking, saving, investment and invest more in our future. Weed out the jokers and hangers on so the true creative minds & real able people can take us onwards & upwards. Let's expose the layers of inefficiencies we have in various businesses.

We have had it far too easy for far too long and that is not a good thing long term. There needs to be a big correction in many people's attitudes to hard work, materialistic consumerism, saving, investment with more realistic & simple levels of expectation with strong morals, ethics & values.

The rubbish attitudes to get rich quick, shortcut to success, greed is good is causing us issues now & the side effects of this will be long reaching for generations. I don't agree with much of new age/media businesses that lose money year on year but are worth billions.

This is not entirely an EU issue but we are shackled more with it being attached. We have more chance of resolving our issues without the EU than with it. Let's go it alone and make Britain Great again. The EU couldn't give two hoots about us. Let's show them what we are made of.

That's a perfect analogy rockiks... There's millions of pensioner's out there like me who are going to kick ar*e in three weeks time..

We've all had an enough of this EU sh*te


Dave

 

[conaero]

that's a perfect analogy rockiks... There's millions of pensioner's out there like me who are going to kick ar*e in three weeks time..

We've all had an enough of this eu sh*te


dave

rofl!

 

[rockits]

It could be ironic that the actual people the country has ignored, not looked after, shafted and not cared about could be the people that could make the difference and make an exit actually happen...the young! These are also the future & the very people we need to take the country forward.

 

[Wack61]

The only way the young would vote in quantity is if it was a pop up box in call of duty , shoot red for leave green for stay in

Serious question to those planning on voting stay, if we weren't already in the EU would you vote to join

https://youtu.be/nA-3aCIKzW4

 

[MrMickS]

Serious question to those planning on voting stay, if we weren't already in the EU would you vote to join

Quick answer would be yes.

I don't look back on the years of Britain outside the EU with fondness. Strikes, power cuts, inflation, high taxes, high interest rates, begging money from the IMF.


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[MrMickS]

This is probably the best piece I've read about the EU and Brexit. It will be censored lol

"I have been listening to the various arguments about this idiotic and damaging referendum for weeks now. All of them focus on personal advantage and disadvantage. Both camps want to appeal to the venal, the self serving, "You will all be better/worse off in/out of the EU". Remain suggests leaving to be economic and security suicide, while Biscuit merely seem to be asking 'what did the Romans ever do for us?'.

This debate is being conducted in the usual schoolyard manner we have come to expect of our ‘leaders'. And there is so little to be said for "Brexit", a word as ugly and false as the barely disguised xenophobia it truly represents, that its supporters are reduced to yelling "That's not fair you're just trying to scare us!" every time some eminently respectable and sober individual or organisation (Mark Carney, Obama, the OFS, the IMF, the head of the NHS... the list goes on and on) remarks that in their considered opinion leaving the EU carries risks. Since Biscuit have obviously lost the economic argument they're now just banging on about immigration - “comin' over 'ere taking our jobs†- an appeal to the most base and unattractive of all our lamentable small island prejudices.

But we are not merely a small island, we are (even though we enjoy denigrating our postwar, post imperial state) one of the richest, most powerful and influential nations on the planet. Along with France and Germany we underpin European stability. Our withdrawal from Europe would be deeply resented by every other state within the bloc, and justifiably so, as the whole would be immeasurably weakened, a state of affairs which should please no one bar a few jingoistic right-wingers and Vladimir Putin. Following Biscuit, right wing nationalist parties in other member states would clamour for independence too, their poisonous bitter protest rooted (as all rightist arguments are), on the theory that their unhappiness/lack of employment/poverty/woeful education/sexual frustration must all be someone else's fault. We will see violence and stupidity rampant and power hungry men merrily abandoning what little decency they once had to become the local Trump-u-like.

Meanwhile, Boris Biscuit Barrel 'La Trumpa' Johnson makes scandalous comparisons to the Third Reich (please be assured dear reader that labour camps, racial cataloging, slave nations and state sponsored euthanasia for the disadvantaged are not part of any one's plan for the future of the EU), and David Cameron suggests that your holiday to the Costa del Sol might cost a few extra hundred quid if we leave. Johnson is unforgivable, and call me Dave may be exaggerating. But so what? What if we stay and your holiday still gets more expensive? (it probably should by the way), and we should stay anyway.

I've been working for a few weeks in Lithuania this year (Vilnius is very lovely, you should visit). They of course secured freedom from the crumbling Soviet Empire in 1991; that's 25 years ago, like yesterday. They were the first Soviet satellite to secede, Russian tanks ran over celebrating Lithuanians as they withdrew, peaceful people forming human shields before buildings of national importance were shot while they sung. Gorbachev received the Nobel peace prize that year. The Lithuanians are terrified of the Russians returning.

Look at a map of Europe in 1975 - Spain is a fascist dictatorship, Portugal is just starting to recover from the 26 year rule of Salazar - another fascist. Poland, East Germany, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria are all soviet satellites independent only in name. You won't even see the Baltic states on the map, they are entirely subsumed by the USSR. A short time later,15 years, these countries start to reappear, looking west for support, desperate to reestablish autonomy and national identity, to trade and to travel freely - you know; the stuff we've all been enjoying for half a century.

Now the EU extends from the Baltic to the Mediterranean, from Ireland to Greece, that's a big WOW! a cause for great celebration. France and Germany are our close friends, no longer bitter enemies.

Bulgarians and Romanians coming here to work is a bloody triumph. These are not a bunch of ‘gypos' coming here to commit criminal acts and live off benefits, they are people freed from ghastly dictatorships who have, for a just a few short years, been able to enjoy something like freedom and affluence.

This is what the EU is for, this is why it's the most forward thinking and civilised development in postwar history; a secular, democratic, tolerant, inclusive federation of mutually supportive states.

And we are threatening to break it up? It's a ******* disgrace."


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[Phil H]

It's very eloquent and at first sight makes a compelling case for the remain camp, but the problem is that it looks only at perceived positives and ignores factual negatives. In short, it is a polarised view with no balance of any consequence.

PH

 

[MrMickS]

It's tries to get beyond the numbers and xenophobia and look at the principles.

The EU is not without its flaws. We have the ludicrous situation of the parliament moving to Strasbourg once a month to vote for an example. The different member states all have their own agendas. Yet in spite of this it does work to a degree and strives to make the life of the citizens better.

To me a Brexit is a vote for an insular, self serving, relationship with the world. As one of the great powers I want us to be more than that.


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[Phil H]

To me a Brexit is a vote for an insular, self serving, relationship with the world.

That's like something out of the Blair/Campbell school of soundbites as are the frequent references to xenophobia. It's precisely the sort of thing that demeans political debate, and it helps to explain why so much of the electorate is disenfranchised.

PH