CLOSED Brexit Poll

Do you want to leave the EU?

  • Yes - Leave the EU

    Votes: 85 55.9%
  • No - Stay in the EU

    Votes: 60 39.5%
  • Dont Know

    Votes: 7 4.6%

  • Total voters
    152
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ricp

New Member
Messages
27
How about thinking of it the otherway round.

If on they 23rd we were voting to join the EU, would you or would you wish to stay outside?

Either way the world will keep turning, business will find a way. BMW aren't suddenly going to stop supplying cars to the UK if we leave. Even a few percentage points on a tariff are likely to be smaller then the natural ebb and flow of the £ vs Euro exchange rate that occurs naturally over time. A drop in the strength of the pound would be a benefit for our exporters.

Similarly, the EU is hardly going to throw itself into a frenzy of reform if we stay. They have bigger fish to fry with the continual kicking of the can down the road over the PIGS economic woes and the migration crisis on the doorstep of the Southern states.
 

rossyl

Member
Messages
3,312
My take on this is that it's all a waste of time, money and newspapers.
I look at things from the endpoint and work backwards, taking in the wider picture.
If we vote in, that's it. Ukip pack up and go home and re-emerge if five years time asking for another once in a lifetime referendum.
If we vote out, Cameron can go to Europe with more of a bargaining stick to beat the European union with. They may budge on certain things but not everything.
The upshot is that we won't actually Leave. Especially on the 24th June like some idiots think.
If Cameron comes back empty handed even with a no vote from the UK population, it'll be game over politically and we'll have a new PM by the end of the year due to a Conservative leadership challenge... Boris anyone.

If we vote Leave, it is not the start of a negotiating process. Cameron has said he would serve notice under Article 50 of the EU treaties that the UK is leaving. That's it, we are out.

As for Boris, I used to like him till this election campaign. I wonder if he'd of won his last London mayoral election if he was so anti-immigration then?
 

midlifecrisis

Member
Messages
16,257
If we vote Leave, it is not the start of a negotiating process. Cameron has said he would serve notice under Article 50 of the EU treaties that the UK is leaving. That's it, we are out.

As for Boris, I used to like him till this election campaign. I wonder if he'd of won his last London mayoral election if he was so anti-immigration then?
Cameron hasn't got the balls to serve notice.
Here's a test, go to your boss and say here's my notice unless you give me a 10% pay rise. He'll say goodbye, you just won't do it unless you have a concrete offer of employment elsewhere and that's what we can't afford to risk.
 

boomerang

Member
Messages
412
Hope GB stays in.
If not, trade will suffer, thats for sure.
From what we hear, leaving would be bad for UK+EU.
But who can really tell what will happen?
Arguments on both sides seem to be hollow predictions...
 

Wack61

Member
Messages
8,800
Most people I've spoken to over 45 are voting out , under 45 are the floating voters from what I can see,

Mind you that plant pot of a Chancellor put his foot right in it when he said house prices could fall 15% , everybody under 30 will be thinking great, I'll be able to get my foot on the ladder
 

Slowly

Junior Member
Messages
327
I dislike much about the EU but think it would be a huge economic mistake for us to leave. If we wanted free trade with Europe (it is a huge partner for us, but for any one country we are a small trade partner) we'd still have to obey the regulations, free movement etc but lose what influence we currently have. The French and Germans would love to put up barriers to our financial sector and the US, which doesn't like the looser regulatory framework in the City, would squeeze hard as well. There'd be plenty of poorer European countries happy to welcome Nissan, Honda, JLRover etc etc to build their cars there.

Apart from migration many seem to be raising issues about things to do with the Human Rights Act and overinterpretation and extension of the principles of the HRA (by both the UK and ECourt of HR judges) ... but the HRA is not to do with the EU - it's completely separate, something we could leave if we wanted to.

I was truly undecided at the beginning but am now firmly in the remain camp for what is the most important vote of my life. My children, 20, 22 & 24, are very worried that the grumpy old "Steptoes" (which they also call me, but not over this issue) will drag us out of the EU but won't live long enough to face the consequences. While personalities should be of lesser concern, the likes of Farage, Quentin Letts, Trump, et. al. are deeply unattractive, so is the shameless opportunism of Boris, and prominent exiteers like Priti Patel performed very badly when asked about specific examples of "red tape" on R4 - the FT had an article recently on how tape-free and easy it is to do business the UK when compared with a global index.

Finally, and though the importance of this vote means that personal circumstances shouldn't really matter, we all have self-interest and like others I'll raise them. In the FT last Saturday there was an article on the squeeze affecting even those who many would regard as well-off.. an article which has been picked up by the red tops today, pillorying the couple featured - with ridiculous stats like the number of bottles of Bollinger they could buy with their gross income... but anyone who has one of the cars we like is reasonably likely to be in the middle range or possibly additional, or even more perniciously, the 61% tax bracket between those two so it is relevant. I've never been pay frozen (-15% in real terms) and taxed (directly, indirectly though increased pension contributions, loss of pension tax relief, loss of tax relief on savings, loss, when the youngest was young enough, of C Benefit etc and potentially with £20k to file for probate) as hard as under this government which is committed to balancing the books. Demographics and increased expectations mean that the spend on health/social care is ballooning and they don't have the political muscle to rein in welfare costs, nor the ability, within or without the EU, to tax giant corporations so the only way that they can get that money is by hitting those in work, especially those better paid. If the economy flatlines or more likely dives with Brexit they'll have to hit us harder still just to keep afloat and a subsequent socialist government won't be able to borrow so readily so their favoured way out of trouble won't work either - and the rich barstewards who drive fancy Italian cars will be first to pay.

Bottom line - whether for the more altruistic reason of the future of us and our children or more prosaically, if you want to have enough left over to keep your Maserati, you need to vote remain!!

Right, rant over; time to tear myself away from SportsMaseratiMumsNet and continue slogging away, only to give nearly half of it away in tax...
 
Messages
6,001
Every constructive argument for remaining can be countered by a constructive argument for leaving
So I have reverted to simplistics
Am I a European?
No I am not.
I am different to a German car worker or a Polish miner or a Greek goatherd
I will be voting leave, but I do believe the vote will go the other way.
 

TridentTested

Member
Messages
1,819
The French and Germans would love to put up barriers to our financial sector and the US, which doesn't like the looser regulatory framework in the City, would squeeze hard as well. There'd be plenty of poorer European countries happy to welcome Nissan, Honda, JLRover etc etc to build their cars there..

It would be more than the car factories which would go. My wife works for one of the high profile independent schools in London. Their 'customers' (pupils would be too prosaic a word) are mostly oligarchs' bankers' and footballers' children. Several of the bankers have already given notice to the school's Head that if the result is 'leave' they will be pulling their children from the school because their employers will be relocating them to Dublin.

If you wanted to hedge against the coming downturn in London property prices, you could look at prime Dublin as a punt.
 

Wack61

Member
Messages
8,800
. There'd be plenty of poorer European countries happy to welcome Nissan, Honda, JLRover etc etc to build their cars there..

So why haven't they gone to those cheaper countries, Leyland trucks builds DAF trucks in Britain but most of the parts come from Europe

Nissan and Honda build in Europe for the subsidies and import tax savings , there are 10s of thousands of Nissan and Honda cars cluttering up airfields but the EU subsidies keep them churning out with no buyers.

JLR will never leave the UK even if they are Indian owned because strange as it may seem built in Britain still means something in the US and Japan, once it's not built in Britain there'd be a massive slump in sales worldwide.

While Nissan churn out more and more unsold cars, Every car coming out of JLR is sold with long waiting lists, I bet they can't wait for Nissan to move to Europe , they'd be straight up to Sunderland to double their capacity with a purpose built factory and a ready trained workforce.

Many years ago Dr Martens closed all their Northamptonshire factories and moved production abroad , as soon as the US market noticed they weren't made in Britain sales dropped dramatically, so much so that they had to re open a factory in the UK and run 2 ranges at 2 prices.

I believe in Britain, I haven't heard a single argument for staying in with any facts in it , it's all guesswork and scaremongering
 

zagatoes30

Member
Messages
20,987
If you wanted to hedge against the coming downturn in London property prices, you could look at prime Dublin as a punt.

Dublin prices are already on the up especially in the city and Dublin 4 area almost back to where they were during Celtic Tiger
 

Phil H

Member
Messages
4,182
Bottom line - whether for the more altruistic reason of the future of us and our children or more prosaically, if you want to have enough left over to keep your Maserati, you need to vote remain!!

Right, rant over; time to tear myself away from SportsMaseratiMumsNet and continue slogging away, only to give nearly half of it away in tax...

Sort of defeated your own argument there, methinks.

PH
 

BennyD

Sea Urchin Pate
Messages
15,006
The problem you've got is the way the Euro trough-eaters think; if you vote to stay in, they will think 'they know what we do and they are happy. If they are happy, they obviously want more of the same'. Vote yes and you are nailing your kn4ckers to the table, waiting for the Euro w4nkers to hit them with a spiked running shoe. Vote NO. If you don't, you will f*ck us for eternity.
 

GeoffCapes

Member
Messages
14,000
, there are 10s of thousands of Nissan and Honda cars cluttering up airfields but the EU subsidies keep them churning out with no buyers.

Nissan are now a client of mine. Albeit not a large one (great pr though) but the comment about cars being built and parked up quite frankly is bo11ocks. They are currently running 24/7 and have been for 18 months to meet demand. Go to your local dealer and ask how long it will be to get a Quashqui you won't get one very quickly.
 

alfatwo

Member
Messages
5,517
The problem you've got is the way the Euro trough-eaters think; if you vote to stay in, they will think 'they know what we do and they are happy. If they are happy, they obviously want more of the same'. Vote yes and you are nailing your kn4ckers to the table, waiting for the Euro w4nkers to hit them with a spiked running shoe. Vote NO. If you don't, you will f*ck us for eternity.

Like me and many millions of voter's over 50.. are voting to leave... That tw*t Edward Heath blagged it last time around and we still haven't forgotten, and we vote..

The Sprogs can't be bothered and most don't have a clue anyway

So that leaves 35/45 year olds, Its looking like plan B then guys..

Dave
 

MrMickS

Member
Messages
3,962
I'm over 50 and voting to stay

I'm proud of being British but can see that if we vote to leave that won't matter. Why? Britain won't exist as it does today by the time the exit comes.

Day one the SNP call for another vote for Scotland to leave and, given how close it was last time, they get a yes result.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Wack61

Member
Messages
8,800
the comment about cars being built and parked up quite frankly is bo11ocks.

Eloquently put

But you're right, I remembered old pictures of thousands parked round their test track , just googled and they've spent 22 million upgrading the plant so it doesn't look like they're going anywhere soon.
 

GeoffCapes

Member
Messages
14,000
Eloquently put

But you're right, I remembered old pictures of thousands parked round their test track , just googled and they've spent 22 million upgrading the plant so it doesn't look like they're going anywhere soon.

I was at Sunderland last month. The only cars parked up are waiting to be exported. Or are in the staff car parks.
The production line is something else. They literally produce thousands of cars a day.
The parts factories run 24/7 365 days a year.
It's a running joke there that you don't want to be promoted to the parts side of the business because you have to work on Christmas Day!
 

zagatoes30

Member
Messages
20,987
Regardless of the result we will need to deal with Europe the only question is will the costs go up or down.

The one thing that worries me is that currently the EU support a lot of community / environmental things like local museums, areas or natural beauty etc, which I know come out of the money we pay in, but on past experience no UK government would use any money they save on these areas. The money would be badly spent preparing up inefficient government departments.
 

Slowly

Junior Member
Messages
327
Sort of defeated your own argument there, methinks.

PH

Only if you believe that mid-higher earners will pay less tax if the economy is damaged by Brexit - I think we'll be squeezed far far harder.

In the 1950s and 60s top rate income tax was in the 90%. In 1971 it was cut to 75% on earned income but investment income surcharge of 15% kept it at 90% and of course it was infamously 98% in 1974. If those sorts of rates were to return for the highest paid you can be sure that middle income earners would be in line for substantial increases. Even Mrs T, when she came to power could only cut top rate from 83% to 60% and basic rate from 33% to 30% - a weak economy means high tax rates to extract sufficient from a smaller pool of people who are in work.
 

midlifecrisis

Member
Messages
16,257
Historically, I don't think we've had it so good, low interest rates and 20/40% income tax 11k free., why upset the apple cart...
 
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