Warning!
- Thread starter mchristyuk
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saintetienne
Junior Member
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That, is really sad to read
If they are saying it is the bush (expanding due to corrosion of the inner sleeve?) should we be looking at http://www.superpro.com.au/ (who pioneered poly suspension bushes with stainless sleeves I believe) commissioning a run of replacement bushes?
Is everybody getting a letter, or just the ones that have reported a failure?
EDIT: They also do replacement arms! http://www.superpro.com.au/products/replacement-arms-a-parts any of our Australian members live in Brisbane, Queensland?!
Also: http://www.superflex.co.uk/ and http://www.polybush.co.uk/ in the UK
All owners will (should) receive a letter .
highlander
Member
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Only in the UK though.
mchristyuk
Junior Member
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Got a reply from the DVSA this morning.. essentially I get the gist that their view is we should only use main dealers and if we don't think they're doing a good enough job we should contact Citizens Advice..!
Mr Christy
Thank you for your email as attached.
DVSA has now completed its investigations into this matter and I attach our consideration in this matter.
Most manufacturer's schedules refer to "checking" components and are often not detailed. For a definitive response on maintenance schedules I would refer you to the manufacturer .
Routine maintenance should not only detect defects but also be preventive and assess serviceability. You refer to bush wear; Generally inspectors (manufacturer or independent) should be assessing the overall condition of a component and it's associated parts to assess it's condition and serviceability.
In the instances we have evidence for there are clear visual indications of deterioration and displacement which should prompt further investigation. This may by necessity require some dismantling for improved access.
Maserati are not forcing vehicle owners to have vehicles serviced at franchised agents and I am not aware of legislation requiring manufacturers to disseminate information direct to service outlets.
It is accepted that independent agents are unlikely to have as detailed a knowledge about a specific vehicle as would be expected of the manufacturer's approved agent. This is an aspect vehicle owners should consider when sourcing a maintenance provider.
The manufacturer's advice is to ensure vehicles are fully inspected and there is an effective preventive maintenance regime in place. The quality of service provided by a maintenance provider is not within DVSA's remit and I would advise you to either contact the manufacturer or seek further advice from a recognised source such as Citizens Advice.
.
Regards
John
Mr Christy
Thank you for your email as attached.
DVSA has now completed its investigations into this matter and I attach our consideration in this matter.
Most manufacturer's schedules refer to "checking" components and are often not detailed. For a definitive response on maintenance schedules I would refer you to the manufacturer .
Routine maintenance should not only detect defects but also be preventive and assess serviceability. You refer to bush wear; Generally inspectors (manufacturer or independent) should be assessing the overall condition of a component and it's associated parts to assess it's condition and serviceability.
In the instances we have evidence for there are clear visual indications of deterioration and displacement which should prompt further investigation. This may by necessity require some dismantling for improved access.
Maserati are not forcing vehicle owners to have vehicles serviced at franchised agents and I am not aware of legislation requiring manufacturers to disseminate information direct to service outlets.
It is accepted that independent agents are unlikely to have as detailed a knowledge about a specific vehicle as would be expected of the manufacturer's approved agent. This is an aspect vehicle owners should consider when sourcing a maintenance provider.
The manufacturer's advice is to ensure vehicles are fully inspected and there is an effective preventive maintenance regime in place. The quality of service provided by a maintenance provider is not within DVSA's remit and I would advise you to either contact the manufacturer or seek further advice from a recognised source such as Citizens Advice.
.
Regards
John
mchristyuk
Junior Member
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So as I seem to thoroughly enjoy p!ssing in a force 10 wind I thought I might as well send a reply....
Hi John,
Thank you for your email.
We have spoken to Maserati and they say that an MOT inspection is suitable and visual inspection without dismantling is sufficient to check for potential wishbone failure.
Considering all these cars had valid MOT's at the time the faults were found, it suggests an MOT type inspection is not sufficient to guarantee safe use of the car between service intervals (which can be annual, or more).
Therefore..
1) If I take my car to a government approved MOT station today and it passes, as per Maseratis communication, who is at fault if the wishbone then fails causing an accident. Is it the MOT station for not doing a good enough job? Is it me because I shouldn't trust a government approved MOT station to check if a car is safe to use on the public highway?
2) You have also not answered my question regarding cars that have full Maserati service history which have this fault. If Maserati's own network of garages can not spot the problem then what chance does anybody have?
3) Maserati's suggestion that the bush is the cause of wishbone failure can only be true if the bush has expanded through contamination. Considering the bush is contained within the wishbone could you please enlighten us (as a qualified engineer) how we measure bush expansion during an MOT type inspection where the bush is not removed from the wishbone nor the wishbone from the car?
The only 100% sure way to guarantee that one of these cars is safe to use on the road on any given day is to remove the wishbones and then remove the bushes and inspect for any kind of contamination that could lead to an expansion of the bush and therefore cracking of the wishbone.
This kind of procedure is not documented in any Maserati service scheduling anywhere, nor is it covered in Maserati's letter to owners.
I repeat, you have been provided evidence from cars with full up to date service history and failures that can only be seen by removing the wishbones from the car yet you accept Maserati's position that it's through lack of maintenance, even though in a number of cases it was their own service agents that failed to spot the problem.
Personally I find the DVSA's and Maserati's response to this potentially fatal problem embarrassing and disgusting on many levels.
Mark
Hi John,
Thank you for your email.
We have spoken to Maserati and they say that an MOT inspection is suitable and visual inspection without dismantling is sufficient to check for potential wishbone failure.
Considering all these cars had valid MOT's at the time the faults were found, it suggests an MOT type inspection is not sufficient to guarantee safe use of the car between service intervals (which can be annual, or more).
Therefore..
1) If I take my car to a government approved MOT station today and it passes, as per Maseratis communication, who is at fault if the wishbone then fails causing an accident. Is it the MOT station for not doing a good enough job? Is it me because I shouldn't trust a government approved MOT station to check if a car is safe to use on the public highway?
2) You have also not answered my question regarding cars that have full Maserati service history which have this fault. If Maserati's own network of garages can not spot the problem then what chance does anybody have?
3) Maserati's suggestion that the bush is the cause of wishbone failure can only be true if the bush has expanded through contamination. Considering the bush is contained within the wishbone could you please enlighten us (as a qualified engineer) how we measure bush expansion during an MOT type inspection where the bush is not removed from the wishbone nor the wishbone from the car?
The only 100% sure way to guarantee that one of these cars is safe to use on the road on any given day is to remove the wishbones and then remove the bushes and inspect for any kind of contamination that could lead to an expansion of the bush and therefore cracking of the wishbone.
This kind of procedure is not documented in any Maserati service scheduling anywhere, nor is it covered in Maserati's letter to owners.
I repeat, you have been provided evidence from cars with full up to date service history and failures that can only be seen by removing the wishbones from the car yet you accept Maserati's position that it's through lack of maintenance, even though in a number of cases it was their own service agents that failed to spot the problem.
Personally I find the DVSA's and Maserati's response to this potentially fatal problem embarrassing and disgusting on many levels.
Mark
mchristyuk
Junior Member
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- 668
Phil,
Think that roughly translates to "Tough sh!t, we don't care if a dodgy bush chucks your car off the road as Maserati said it's all your fault".
Mark
Think that roughly translates to "Tough sh!t, we don't care if a dodgy bush chucks your car off the road as Maserati said it's all your fault".
Mark
mchristyuk
Junior Member
- Messages
- 668
Maserati seem to be suggesting that it's because of worn bushes moving in the arm causing it to tear.
If that's true, why doesn't it happen in warm and dry climates such as the USA and Australia, why do these failures seem constrained to Northern Europe?
Probably because it's due to undetectable corrosion on the inside of the bush causing the bush to expand and bursting the arm.
Had the DVSA had the parts independently inspected they might have found that out.
I'm also pretty sure that Matts Gransport isn't 14 years old.
It's a complete mockery of an "investigation" which harks back to the original point of why do the DVSA trust the manufacturers to be honest about things like this?
Bah.. humbug.
Mark
If that's true, why doesn't it happen in warm and dry climates such as the USA and Australia, why do these failures seem constrained to Northern Europe?
Probably because it's due to undetectable corrosion on the inside of the bush causing the bush to expand and bursting the arm.
Had the DVSA had the parts independently inspected they might have found that out.
I'm also pretty sure that Matts Gransport isn't 14 years old.
It's a complete mockery of an "investigation" which harks back to the original point of why do the DVSA trust the manufacturers to be honest about things like this?
Bah.. humbug.
Mark
Evo Cymru
Member
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- 688
Brilliant!
Evo Cymru
Member
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My GS was 8 years old when I found the cracks in both front wishbones...
Dave, I think there are only two paths left; that and a group buy that allows (relatively) cheap preventative replacement with a much stronger (safer) arm. Without scientific evidence highlighting the arm was underdesigned/cast badly/too thin art stress point etc then I don't see minds changing.
rs48635
Member
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- 3,181
Wanted - any olde Ferrari to swap for a three wheeled MAserati 3200 GT Asetto Corsa
Seriously, can this company do something for my old nag?
And Maserati, if there is no serious issue to be found, just initiate a full recall to inspect suspension. As the crack can be detected under normal maintenace it shouls only take a few minutes on the ramp. In fact maybe have an open day at each Maserati service centre, where queues of 3200 , 4200 and GS would develop.
Seriously, can this company do something for my old nag?
And Maserati, if there is no serious issue to be found, just initiate a full recall to inspect suspension. As the crack can be detected under normal maintenace it shouls only take a few minutes on the ramp. In fact maybe have an open day at each Maserati service centre, where queues of 3200 , 4200 and GS would develop.
allandwf
Member
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- 10,995
That would be my choice. With a wide cross section of ages and models, and get a definitive answer as to cause.
rs48635
Member
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My own letter still in transit, so thanks for clearly showing the number.
Jsut had a chat with Paul Green.
We need to go to a dealer and pay for the inspection which will take only 20-30 minutes. The dealers are fully aware of the facts and have diagrams of the issue. They clearly knwo they ar elooking for cracks and how to find them.
Strangely the letter does not mention work "crack". There must be hundreds of owners out there who do not frequent the internet. How many will see this note and just ignore it? I probably would have done.
Jsut had a chat with Paul Green.
We need to go to a dealer and pay for the inspection which will take only 20-30 minutes. The dealers are fully aware of the facts and have diagrams of the issue. They clearly knwo they ar elooking for cracks and how to find them.
Strangely the letter does not mention work "crack". There must be hundreds of owners out there who do not frequent the internet. How many will see this note and just ignore it? I probably would have done.