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Rwc13

Rwc13

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I know very little at all about the stock market. I worked in a profession with so many stock investment restrictions that I decided to invest instead in the property market.

But from the perspective of an outsider, surely the stock and currency markets should have been simply “closed” a month or so ago with prices fixed. Then they could have been reopened again when sentiment was more settled and a more rational view prevailing. This would have avoided all this treasury intervention to prop up the markets, most of which seems to be being syphoned away by the expert traders who know got to play the game in a crisis. At the end of the day it is the ordinary taxpayer who will foot the bill for all this and it boils my xxxxx that many are actually seeking to profit from this crisis rather than thinking of those that are less fortunate.
 
Wattie

Wattie

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8,640
Rwc13 said:
I know very little at all about the stock market. I worked in a profession with so many stock investment restrictions that I decided to invest instead in the property market.

But from the perspective of an outsider, surely the stock and currency markets should have been simply “closed” a month or so ago with prices fixed. Then they could have been reopened again when sentiment was more settled and a more rational view prevailing. This would have avoided all this treasury intervention to prop up the markets, most of which seems to be being syphoned away by the expert traders who know got to play the game in a crisis. At the end of the day it is the ordinary taxpayer who will foot the bill for all this and it boils my xxxxx that many are actually seeking to profit from this crisis rather than thinking of those that are less fortunate.
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Closing markets would highlight the disaster they are. Re-opening them after a period of time would cause everyone to run for the exit.....no confidence.

Markets go up, they should be capable of going down too. That’s normal market forces. The minute the downside is supported you know markets are manipulated and broken.

You’re right re those responsible. Bankers have yet to pay the price.

By the way what do you think is gonna happen to property prices. Total reset coming as billions of mortgages default. 40-50% price crash....but the loan is still owed.
This will be a total reset.
 
Froddy

Froddy

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Wattie said:
You’re right re those responsible. Bankers have yet to pay the price.
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They'll get away with it (again), I'm sure ...

As my family is now in 2 week self-isolation, we've had to turn away the services of our childminder and dog walker who are on low incomes. Quite apart from the fact that they can't come to the house during this period, we also (as self-employed people ourselves) have to think about how we can continue to pay them and how we're going to get through this if it goes on for months and months (which it inevitably will).

Society is going to crumble under this - it's absolutely horrific ...
 
Rwc13

Rwc13

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Messages
1,668
Wattie said:
Closing markets would highlight the disaster they are. Re-opening them after a period of time would cause everyone to run for the exit.....no confidence.

Markets go up, they should be capable of going down too. That’s normal market forces. The minute the downside is supported you know markets are manipulated and broken.

You’re right re those responsible. Bankers have yet to pay the price.

By the way what do you think is gonna happen to property prices. Total reset coming as billions of mortgages default. 40-50% price crash....but the loan is still owed.
This will be a total reset.
Click to expand...
I’m not saying there would’nt/shouldn’t be an adjustment on re-opening, but it wouldn’t be such a panicked one driven by nobody being able to predict the future impact of this virus. Surely, if the future is more predictable, the market correction would be more realistic, more one off in nature, and it wouldn’t require the repeated market intervention from Governments that largely seems to be being pocketed by the traders/bankers.

Concerning the property market, I would expect to see a value correction for the reasons you state - both residential and commercial - I have a mix of both in my portfolio. But for me, capital appreciation has always been secondary to income, so not too bothered about that. It’s debt free so running costs are very manageable. I expect there will be a higher rate of default and some tenants asking for rent suspension, and within reason I will be happy to help out where I can in the short term. I’d rather still have the tenant in 12 months time and so take the hit now if that preserves their business, employment and my tenant in the longer term.
 
Wattie

Wattie

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8,640
Rwc13 said:
I’m not saying there would’nt/shouldn’t be an adjustment on re-opening, but it wouldn’t be such a panicked one driven by nobody being able to predict the future impact of this virus. Surely, if the future is more predictable, the market correction would be more realistic, more one off in nature, and it wouldn’t require the repeated market intervention from Governments that largely seems to be being pocketed by the traders/bankers.

Concerning the property market, I would expect to see a value correction for the reasons you state - both residential and commercial - I have a mix of both in my portfolio. But for me, capital appreciation has always been secondary to income, so not too bothered about that. It’s debt free so running costs are very manageable. I expect there will be a higher rate of default and some tenants asking for rent suspension, and within reason I will be happy to help out where I can in the short term. I’d rather still have the tenant in 12 months time and so take the hit now if that preserves their business, employment and my tenant in the longer term.
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You can’t stop markets when conditions aren’t favourable. That’s manipulation.
The fact that things aren’t allowed to fall, tells you all you need to know.

It’s against true price discovery.
 
lozcb

lozcb

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12,566
Rwc13 said:
I’m not saying there would’nt/shouldn’t be an adjustment on re-opening, but it wouldn’t be such a panicked one driven by nobody being able to predict the future impact of this virus. Surely, if the future is more predictable, the market correction would be more realistic, more one off in nature, and it wouldn’t require the repeated market intervention from Governments that largely seems to be being pocketed by the traders/bankers.

Concerning the property market, I would expect to see a value correction for the reasons you state - both residential and commercial - I have a mix of both in my portfolio. But for me, capital appreciation has always been secondary to income, so not too bothered about that. It’s debt free so running costs are very manageable. I expect there will be a higher rate of default and some tenants asking for rent suspension, and within reason I will be happy to help out where I can in the short term. I’d rather still have the tenant in 12 months time and so take the hit now if that preserves their business, employment and my tenant in the longer term.
Click to expand...


The country needs more like you :alan4:
 
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Rwc13

Rwc13

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In my view it’s not manipulation when an unprecedented global health crisis is involved. This is nothing to do with normal market forces creating a cyclical economic downturn where market manipulation would be questionable or plain wrong.
 
Wattie

Wattie

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8,640
Rwc13 said:
In my view it’s not manipulation when an unprecedented global health crisis is involved. This is nothing to do with normal market forces creating a cyclical economic downturn where market manipulation would be questionable or plain wrong.
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Normal market forces haven’t been in place for about 10 years so it’s a bit rich to say we can ignore all that manipulation and manipulate things now because a health crisis has come up.
If normal market forces had been in place 10 years ago we would have been able to cater for this health crisis......instead of trying to Ponzi it along again.
 
Rwc13

Rwc13

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1,668
Wattie said:
Normal market forces haven’t been in place for about 10 years so it’s a bit rich to say we can ignore all that manipulation and manipulate things now because a health crisis has come up.
If normal market forces had been in place 10 years ago we would have been able to cater for this health crisis......instead of trying to Ponzi it along again.
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I don’t recall saying we should ignore it? I have always been against it. But I’m not going to celebrate the utter devestation of people’s lives all across the world because it undoes that historical market manipulation and proves I was right to invest in a different asset class.

And in my view, closing the markets would represent much less of a market manipulation than Governments continuing to plough in trillions to support them and watching others manipulate this to their own evil ends
 
Wattie

Wattie

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8,640
Rwc13 said:
I don’t recall saying we should ignore it? I have always been against it. But I’m not going to celebrate the utter devestation of people’s lives all across the world because it undoes that historical market manipulation and proves I was right to invest in a different asset class.

And in my view, closing the markets would represent much less of a market manipulation than Governments continuing to plough in trillions to support them and watching others manipulate this to their own evil ends
Click to expand...
People have been living beyond their means for years, wrongly encouraged to do so by bankers, but hang on they knew what they were doing. bankers did too and they should be punished, ratings agencies, politicians too.

Everyone knows when they are Over stretched.

This has nothing to do with investing in an asset class.

Your solution to closing markets assumes they’re mutually exclusive from debt. They’re not. The markets are built on the debt.

shutting markets isn’t going to solve that.
 
lozcb

lozcb

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12,566
Guys ............can the well informed do some research and take a look to see who is buying up all the stocks ...................................birdie tells me its the Chinese , they are profiteering 2 fold , buy the stuff we are buying to contain the virus and stock piling etc and picking up the peices as the companies fall along the wayside ...........................prove me wrong please .........ive the the parachute and bullet proof vest on today and happy to be shot down in flames
 
lozcb

lozcb

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12,566
lozcb said:
Guys ............can the well informed do some research and take a look to see who is buying up all the stocks ...................................birdie tells me its the Chinese , they are profiteering 2 fold , buy the stuff we are buying to contain the virus and stock piling etc and picking up the peices as the companies fall along the wayside ...........................prove me wrong please .........ive the the parachute and bullet proof vest on today and happy to be shot down in flames
Click to expand...

This part of the thread from herein should be almagamated with the are you worried thread if my thinking is correct

:frusty6:
 
Rwc13

Rwc13

Member
Messages
1,668
Wattie said:
People have been living beyond their means for years, wrongly encouraged to do so by bankers, but hang on they knew what they were doing. bankers did too and they should be punished, ratings agencies, politicians too.

Everyone knows when they are Over stretched.

This has nothing to do with investing in an asset class.

Your solution to closing markets assumes they’re mutually exclusive from debt. They’re not. The markets are built on the debt.

shutting markets isn’t going to solve that.
Click to expand...
Wow, so you really are going to celebrate the global social devastation that this will create because it proves you were right all along?

And no, I think the vast majority of people are not even close to being as economically astute as you, and have often been very badly advised and/or wrongly encouraged to do things that they should have thought better of. But the point here is that it’s not just the “overstretched” that will be punished by the correction you are celebrating. Nearly everybody will, even those that have been incredibly prudent will lose their jobs, be unable to pay their mortgages etc.

There is absolutely no good in this for the vast majority of the world population because the knock on effects of such a stock market correction will negatively affect just about everything for everybody, everywhere. So I can find no reason to celebrate this and I will not be adopting an “I’m alright Jack” attitude.
 
MaseratiGent

MaseratiGent

Member
Messages
162
Rwc13 said:
I know very little at all about the stock market. I worked in a profession with so many stock investment restrictions that I decided to invest instead in the property market.

But from the perspective of an outsider, surely the stock and currency markets should have been simply “closed” a month or so ago with prices fixed. Then they could have been reopened again when sentiment was more settled and a more rational view prevailing. This would have avoided all this treasury intervention to prop up the markets, most of which seems to be being syphoned away by the expert traders who know got to play the game in a crisis. At the end of the day it is the ordinary taxpayer who will foot the bill for all this and it boils my xxxxx that many are actually seeking to profit from this crisis rather than thinking of those that are less fortunate.
Click to expand...

Close the secondary market and you can never issue new securities/raise money.

You can buy two houses. One you know you will never have the chance to sell at any future price, one you will be able to at an unknown price. How much less do you pay for #1 over #2?
 
MaseratiGent

MaseratiGent

Member
Messages
162
Some very large, well-known, hitherto (for decades) succesful hedge funds are liquidating. This is causing some extreme illogocal behaviour such as mass dumping of USTs and then a 7 point rally (because the Fed has guaranteed to buy).
 
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