rear suspension arms

[hodroyd]

Hi Craig,
That's excellent and does the job well, if there is something, even photo's for the ball joint replacement, then we are done and dusted, great stuff..!!
Cheers
R

 

[CraigWaterman11]

Rob, simple enough just remove and replace the entire control arm. As of yet I do not know of anyone who has replaced just the ball joint. I studied the design but don't think it's possible to remove it without wrecking the encasing. I have two spare upper control arms here now I bought from an 05'. My ball joints are fine now, but I am working on replacement boots which I think I might have found. If not during the winter months I can take the control arms off, and replace them as a project. I don't drive the Spider during the winter so it's face-lift bumpers and a few mods time!

 

[hodroyd]

We had that discussion regarding the ball joints and just replacing them instead of the whole thing, but it was never resolved..!!

 

[alfatwo]

I just refitted my toe arms with new SKF bearings as standard very easy job and only £12 each

I wasn't too keen on modifying the rear suspension just in case it invalidated my insurance...you know what there like!

Dave

 

[CraigWaterman11]

We had that discussion regarding the ball joints and just replacing them instead of the whole thing, but it was never resolved..!!

Oh again brother very sorry......man forgive my ignorance I didn't know let me snap some photos really quick... let's start some dialog and see?

okay so here's the rear upper control arm:

I'm pretty sure you knew that's what it was here's some close ups of it:

Now, I am not totally sure but the way they were pressed in-to the control arm has me personally persuaded that they cannot be changed out........but let's postulate that they can be changed......where's the replacement ball joint going to come from without modifying the entire control arm? If it is in fact able to be modified, will that weaken the little bit of metal alloy that's there so it would become unsafe? These are naked photos of the ball joint without the dust boot on it. It helps to see it this way. I am definitely open to suggestions.

 

[CraigWaterman11]

Here's another alternative......I think more sensible but I don't know how cost effective............ if I had the material I could build them myself I think (need a jig and few other things but possible). I know the ball joint is facing the wrong way in this example, and I am thinking we would need to make sure the lower control arm is dead on with where the tie rod is. This ball joint wouldn't work because the stud isn't long enough but when you build the ball-joint structure right they would easily be replaceable. I am almost tempted to believe that someone would build a set of these less than what you would pay for the OEM ones but I'm not positive about that. I do know I've seen them custom built for other high performance cars, such as Lotus, etc.

 

[alfatwo]

That stuff would definatly not be road legal over here

 

[hodroyd]

I'm not sure about that either, changing from a cast assembly to a welded assembly I do not think would pass inspection for safety, they are very stringent on that kind of thing over the water Craig..??

 

[BennyD]

However, the less movement there is from the tie bars, the less the movement in all the other joints, therefore less wear. IMO, sorting the tie bars will result in a longer life of all the other suspension components.

 

[CraigWaterman11]

However, the less movement there is from the tie bars, the less the movement in all the other joints, therefore less wear. IMO, sorting the tie bars will result in a longer life of all the other suspension components.

You're absolutely correct Benny. There's quite a few companies that make tubular control arms for anything from regular street to full on racing. I guess the MOT is really ******* you guys... Here's a tubular control arm assembly on a crazy hopped up Mustang:

They have been running tubular assemblies for years and years over here. Either way it was just a suggestion. IMO if you can road race a car with 5-600 hp or more and the flex, and twist of the frame and control arms it's going through I wouldn't see any problem running it on our cars. I think I mentioned the Lotus correct? Either way, I am glad you guys chimed in!! I think one of the guys was wondering on your forum in the UK what ya'll finally decided on this issue. Benny, again you are totally correct. When you firm up the rear tie rods, it will shore up other components that have to make up for the extra/un-necessary movement. Thus, your other components are going to last longer. But it's my opinion you have to replace the control arm......at least right now if the rear ball joints deteriorate .................. thus the entire control arm must be replaced. So what do you guys say?

 

[mjheathcote]

That stuff would definatly not be road legal over here

Interesting point.
No more so than the tie bar replacement being a slightly different design.
In my Triumph Stag circles, you can buy a kit to replace the complete rear suspension to a hybrid custom/BMW E30 assembly to benefit from disc rear brakes and the BMW differential, it's not illegal.
In the UK we can do anything really, the MOT does not check for originality of components fitted to your car.
The bottom line you have to take liability yourself if you fit anything non original, and if you have not informed your insurance company and you have an accident, you are hoping that the inspector does not notice if the modified/changed components are non original design. Which is very unlikely unless he is an enthusiast of the marque!

 

[mjheathcote]

I'm not sure about that either, changing from a cast assembly to a welded assembly I do not think would pass inspection for safety, they are very stringent on that kind of thing over the water Craig..??

You find tubed welded assemblies on many low production cars, Lotus for example.
Cast assemblies are used when high volume makes it cost viable, unless a very expensive Supercar.

 

[davy83]

All TVR's are entirely built from tubular welded chassis and control arms. However having owned TVR's for 9 years, the biggest problem with this type of part is the steel corrodes, quite quickly and requires regular treatment. I would also think it would be very difficult to calculate the required wall thickness and yield strength required in the steel. A cast Aluminium suspension arm is quite a strong item. I would be quite careful here, if this failed it would probably right off the car, possibly you with it, and your insurance would not touch it.

 

[philw696]

Just to mention my 456 GTA had a steel tubular chassis which before the aluminium technology came into play that's how it was done. Go back in time to the good old days and they braise welded together. Phil.

 

[CraigWaterman11]

You guys made some very interesting points I thought about as well, but you guys are on the other side of the pond so it's better for you to say it than I. It's only a suggestion for a tubular design.....just another option for someone I thought. I know they power-coat them, and it's a great anti-rust technology they use to keep it from rusting as well. I think stainless steel might be an option but an expensive one. I think if you guys can also chime in about the original ball joint being replaced from the rear for Robert to it would be great. I know that was essentially what he was asking about.