Porsche Boxster 2.5
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cheshiremaserati
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All that glitters is not gold.....
Lavazza
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Bore scoring can be an issue, and more so on S variants. Get a boroscope inspection before buying. It's not always an issue and much hyped on the internet. A low temp thermostat on the engine can reduce the likelihood of borescoring. Have a look at this...they know what they're talking about. We take our Cayman S there.
https://www.rpmspecialistcars.co.uk/porsche-engine-preservation/
https://www.rpmspecialistcars.co.uk/porsche-engine-preservation/
zagatoes30
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Tell me any old car that doesn't have some issue but the longer they survive the more likely they are to have avoided or had fixed said issue. As always buy with eyes open and you shouldn't get burnt too much
Lavazza
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Just depends what you're used to. They're nippy, but the S is quite a bit more muscular.
We were looking at a 2.9 Cayman originally, but it just didn't feel quick enough. Then we drove the S which is a 3.4 and it was so much better. The S models have larger brakes etc too.
We were looking at a 2.9 Cayman originally, but it just didn't feel quick enough. Then we drove the S which is a 3.4 and it was so much better. The S models have larger brakes etc too.
Andyk
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Will say though that doesn't matter what Boxster you buy they are all great fun and great drivers cars. Perfect driving position .....Whenever I've jump into one they feel just right. Porsche do that very well.
midlifecrisis
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A friend of mine bought an early cayman thing, then its engine committed suicide. He's now inserting a V8 engine into it. I've heard that mid-naughties Porsche engines have overheating issues. Whereas the Maserati engines can go on forever.
Lavazza
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See the link in post #5
midlifecrisis
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That's scary, I wouldn't have expected a bad engine design from a German manufacturer. I do remember a man at work telling me horror stories about 996 Porsche in 2006. I couldn't believe it at the time.
cheshiremaserati
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Boxster 986 series and 987 inc. Cayman have inherent engine issues that may/could require a rebuild at £10k+ to properly sort the issues. The safest choice is 996 and 997 Turbo, GT3 and GT2 that have the race-bred dry sump Mezger engine.
False economy buying 'cheap' Boxster. I know of one individual who bought one for £6500 and at first service (within 6 months of purchase) needed £4k plus the £700 service cost to put right. Then a borescope at another indy after the service confirmed scored bores and needs £10k rebuild. So bought for £6500, service + additional work was £4700. Then borescope for £200 so £11,400 total spend. And then, needs £10k engine rebuild taking total to £21,400 for a car that will be worth around £5,500 on resale. Crazy numbers.
Buy MY2009 with the new DFI engine.
The latest Boxster and Cayman has a different engine again.
False economy buying 'cheap' Boxster. I know of one individual who bought one for £6500 and at first service (within 6 months of purchase) needed £4k plus the £700 service cost to put right. Then a borescope at another indy after the service confirmed scored bores and needs £10k rebuild. So bought for £6500, service + additional work was £4700. Then borescope for £200 so £11,400 total spend. And then, needs £10k engine rebuild taking total to £21,400 for a car that will be worth around £5,500 on resale. Crazy numbers.
Buy MY2009 with the new DFI engine.
The latest Boxster and Cayman has a different engine again.
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midlifecrisis
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Similar figures for my friend. Except he bought his for more than 10k...
Different generations have specific engine foibles, the 986 model suffered from intermediate shaft bearing failure (terminal and instant engine destruction) but thankfully is quite rare. The 987 engines suffered from bore scoring (much more common, especially on the 3.4 engines) then the latter 987 facelift dfi cars are much more reliable all around.
But like a masser when they get to a certain age the suspension my need a refresh to maintain the sweet handling.
I've owned 2 986 's' for combined 10 years now. Can't beat their bang for buck
But like a masser when they get to a certain age the suspension my need a refresh to maintain the sweet handling.
I've owned 2 986 's' for combined 10 years now. Can't beat their bang for buck
cheshiremaserati
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The early 986/987 Boxsters are at a price where many csn afford to buy but cut corners on maintenance because rads, condensors, discs, pads and manual car syncho issues (tiptronic auto box and torque converter seals start to leak) all cost money. Suspension refreshes add to the bills. These are on top of servicing and tyres, batteries etc.
Therefore, so many are offloaded hiding big bills that some mug picks up - especially chancers who know little about the issues and skimp by not having a PPI by a marque specialist.
The later DFI cars are good as is the 4th generation of Boxster/Cayman the 982 aka the 718 series which runs flat four twin turbo engines.
Personally, my advice to budding 986/987 Boxster/Cayman buyers is that I could not live with the Russian Roulette with those engines and that if I was to go Boxster (nice car, but its not a 911) then I'd only buy the DFI engine cars or the new flat four engines.
I've just seen too many 986/987 Boxsters cstching out new owners - a gamble yes - but I hear of too many owners sinking a shed-load of money into them within the first or second year of ownership - far outweighing their resale value and probably their worth.
Therefore, so many are offloaded hiding big bills that some mug picks up - especially chancers who know little about the issues and skimp by not having a PPI by a marque specialist.
The later DFI cars are good as is the 4th generation of Boxster/Cayman the 982 aka the 718 series which runs flat four twin turbo engines.
Personally, my advice to budding 986/987 Boxster/Cayman buyers is that I could not live with the Russian Roulette with those engines and that if I was to go Boxster (nice car, but its not a 911) then I'd only buy the DFI engine cars or the new flat four engines.
I've just seen too many 986/987 Boxsters cstching out new owners - a gamble yes - but I hear of too many owners sinking a shed-load of money into them within the first or second year of ownership - far outweighing their resale value and probably their worth.
midlifecrisis
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Makes Maserati ownership cheap by comparison.
cheshiremaserati
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Consider for a minute that in the late 1990's Porsche was struggling. They decided to throw out air cooling and embrace water-cooling. They also needed volume and economies across the range with shared parts. Enter the Boxster (the new entry-level sub £30k Porsche) and the 996. They shared many parts and came rolling off the production lines. But Porsche was new to water-cooling and they used inferior lokasil liners. Add poor water channels to bank 2 and overheating results in scored bores. The IMS issue is different and quite rare.
It was to be 10 years later in 2009 when Porsche learnings from the early water cooled experience that Porsche developed an all-new DFI engine that addressed the issues of scored bores and IMS failure.
The Turbo did not use the wet sump setup.
It came a couple of years after the launch of the 996. It used a chopped down version of the 1999 Le Mans-winning GT1 car - the Mezger engine. Much better build quality with the expensive Nikasil liners and forged from rhe better crankcases of the 993 and 964. A legend was born in the turbo, the GT3 (non turbo) and the widow-maker twin turbo GT2. The 996 Turbo was a £100k car when new. Mezger cars are highly sought - but lots of dogs out there with owners cutting corners on maintenance.
Usual rule applies. If you get s good car that has been well maintained, the ownetship experience is usually better - but acquisition price is higher. Porsche have marketed the brand well and prices genetally go up more so than modern Maserati cars.
It was to be 10 years later in 2009 when Porsche learnings from the early water cooled experience that Porsche developed an all-new DFI engine that addressed the issues of scored bores and IMS failure.
The Turbo did not use the wet sump setup.
It came a couple of years after the launch of the 996. It used a chopped down version of the 1999 Le Mans-winning GT1 car - the Mezger engine. Much better build quality with the expensive Nikasil liners and forged from rhe better crankcases of the 993 and 964. A legend was born in the turbo, the GT3 (non turbo) and the widow-maker twin turbo GT2. The 996 Turbo was a £100k car when new. Mezger cars are highly sought - but lots of dogs out there with owners cutting corners on maintenance.
Usual rule applies. If you get s good car that has been well maintained, the ownetship experience is usually better - but acquisition price is higher. Porsche have marketed the brand well and prices genetally go up more so than modern Maserati cars.
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midlifecrisis
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But liquid cooled engines are not new, when motor cycle manufacturers went from air to liquid they didn't have this problem. Or VW in the early 70's..
cheshiremaserati
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That's true, but where Porsche was different is that they moved to more mass-production, lower grade components (Lokasil liners instead of Nikasil) and interchangeability of parts - the 986 Boxtser and the 996 911 shared a lot of common parts (but not the Turbo or Mezger engined cars). The GT3 for instance uses titanium con-rods. Dry-sump provides better cooling for the high performance as opposed to the non-Mezger cars which Porsche described as "integrated dry-sump". Porsche was nearing bankruptcy and moved from low volume cars to mass-production (just google the number of 993 and 964 cars and then compare to 996 and 997 cars sold). Accountants took a firm grip to cut costs of production. The IMS design was at fault with a layout that leached the grease and effectively made it run almost dry and rapid wear until crunch it disintegrates. There is no intermediate shaft in a mezger engine - like my motorcyle days when I used to tell guys in their BSA bantam's - "the rattle is your tappets mate, get a mechanic to readjust the tappets", I joke to Turbo owners - "get the IMS setup checked out mate"
There were inherent flaws in the 996 and 986 and the early 987 and 997's also. Porsche Cars North America (PCNA) lost a lawsuit brought upon them by owners whose engines went crunch and suffered scored bores.
http://www.eisenimssettlement.com/
In fact the flaw is so inherent, that Baz hart of Hartech in Bolton says if not modified, it's a matter of when not if the engine packs up with scored bores and/or IMS failure.
I know a lot of Porsche indys who are ex-OPC and they ALL cite the numerous examples of crunched engines (around 2-3 a month) they got in for replacement engines. OPC (Official Porsche Centres) refused to accept an inherent flaw in the design, fearing it would open the floodgates for class action lawsuits or individual lawsuits.
Unfortunately, when OPC replaced the engines under warranty (remember you can extend the standard warranty to 10 years), they replaced the crunched engines with the same flawed engines so it was another ticking time bomb until that engine went crunch.
Hartech are probably the best for rebuilds, replacing the cheap lokasil liners for nikasil, and machining the water channels on bank 2 for better water flow and cooling, better quality pistons and rings, better IMS bearing etc. baz has made a living out of rebuilding broken boxster and cayman and 996 and 997 engines. His core business is founded upon Porsche's failure to correct the flawed design (until they came out with the DFI engine). But a Hartech-rebuilt engine is no safeguard without sight of (a) Hartech full report and recommendations and (b) the FULL itemised invoice.
I even know of people who had a borescope on pre-purchase at indys, were given the all-clear and then into ownership, borescope request at service showed scored bores. Some off-loaded them onto unsuspecting mugs. Others sank £10k-£12k into a rebuild and kept telling themselves and forum members that it was a keeper. It has to be after sinking that sort of money and worth not a lot more than the cost of the rebuild! Still some others went for "partial" rebuild for the problem to re-occur on the non-rectified items to keep costs down and off-load the car to some unsuspecting mug who is mesmerised by "hartech-rebuild or indy- rebuild". It all depends on what the owners instruct Hartech to carry out with the recommendations provided.
Now tell me, who wants to buy a non-Mezger, non-DFI Porsche water-cooled car?
Not me for sure. I don't like to play Russian Roulette with a live round in a chamber. Though plenty of people evidently do judging by how many of these cars are out there.
There were inherent flaws in the 996 and 986 and the early 987 and 997's also. Porsche Cars North America (PCNA) lost a lawsuit brought upon them by owners whose engines went crunch and suffered scored bores.
http://www.eisenimssettlement.com/
In fact the flaw is so inherent, that Baz hart of Hartech in Bolton says if not modified, it's a matter of when not if the engine packs up with scored bores and/or IMS failure.
I know a lot of Porsche indys who are ex-OPC and they ALL cite the numerous examples of crunched engines (around 2-3 a month) they got in for replacement engines. OPC (Official Porsche Centres) refused to accept an inherent flaw in the design, fearing it would open the floodgates for class action lawsuits or individual lawsuits.
Unfortunately, when OPC replaced the engines under warranty (remember you can extend the standard warranty to 10 years), they replaced the crunched engines with the same flawed engines so it was another ticking time bomb until that engine went crunch.
Hartech are probably the best for rebuilds, replacing the cheap lokasil liners for nikasil, and machining the water channels on bank 2 for better water flow and cooling, better quality pistons and rings, better IMS bearing etc. baz has made a living out of rebuilding broken boxster and cayman and 996 and 997 engines. His core business is founded upon Porsche's failure to correct the flawed design (until they came out with the DFI engine). But a Hartech-rebuilt engine is no safeguard without sight of (a) Hartech full report and recommendations and (b) the FULL itemised invoice.
I even know of people who had a borescope on pre-purchase at indys, were given the all-clear and then into ownership, borescope request at service showed scored bores. Some off-loaded them onto unsuspecting mugs. Others sank £10k-£12k into a rebuild and kept telling themselves and forum members that it was a keeper. It has to be after sinking that sort of money and worth not a lot more than the cost of the rebuild! Still some others went for "partial" rebuild for the problem to re-occur on the non-rectified items to keep costs down and off-load the car to some unsuspecting mug who is mesmerised by "hartech-rebuild or indy- rebuild". It all depends on what the owners instruct Hartech to carry out with the recommendations provided.
Now tell me, who wants to buy a non-Mezger, non-DFI Porsche water-cooled car?
Not me for sure. I don't like to play Russian Roulette with a live round in a chamber. Though plenty of people evidently do judging by how many of these cars are out there.
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