Joining the electric car club

[zagatoes30]

I'm not an EV hater, it's each to their own and with the obvious tax incentives for those who can purchase via company car scheme it is a no brainer. What I do hate though I those that preach how environmentally friendly they are to the planet and that I should get rid of my fossil fuel burners and buy one.

I can't see how any new car can be truly net neutral over a car that has already been built, the production impact alone, regardless of fuel type, must take years to recoup over an existing car even if it is less efficient. EVs by the time you factor in mining all those complex ingredients and then shipping them half way round the world to turn into batteries which you then charge with various power generation options including fossil fuels makes no sense to me.

Heh I might be an old dinosaur but all my cars are old and recycled, make do and mend was what I was brought up on and in most cases that's still how I make do today.

 

[Wack61]

One of the great ironies of the ULEZ is the awful levels of pollution on the Tube - why is more not being done about the shockingly bad air quality there?

No money to be made

Used EVs make financial sense with post tax income , when dealers start passing on the shockingly low PX prices being offered they'll be even cheaper but for now a 80k Mercedes EQC 400 for 25k at 3 years old is a great car for the money 0-60 in 5.1s, to get that in a 3 year old petrol merc you'd be looking at over 50k

There are some very good deals on new EVs, 0%.finance
Just recently Honda dealers were offering their new suv at £179 deposit £179 a month

 

[Ewan]

Your spot in that most, are upset/annoyed/ disrespectful/aggrieved/ about the legislation and unfair advantage that has been afforded the EV market, especially as we head further down the line in data collection which proves the opposite virtually of what was promised/quoted by certain governments and manufacturers/dealers.
Agreed they have a small market where they will achieve the same if not better results if used locally by people who have access to off street parking and only use their cars for short local journeys ( school runs and local light weight deliveries ) but for anything else one will have to adjust ones lifestyle to accommodate ones usage.....as an all rounder compared to an ice the data shows it doesnt stack up.

My answer to Ewan is, take away the present tax advantages would you make the same choice again .......... In a true free capital market which is what we claim to be EV's would have died a long time ago , except those close and in favour of the Net Zero projects Ev's being just one along side wind farms and solar farms seemed have made an awful lot of money aided by ridiculously extortionate tax concessions which the rest of us and those that disagree in principle have to pay for. Take those tax concessions away and all those business models would fail miserably.

So yes some seem to be hostile against EV's basically because were the ones having to fund those tax concessions which save you money and we feel kind of vilified when the data proves the business model cant stand alone financially .........every tax payer is footing the bill for you saving money on an idea which doesnt and never can make money in its own right

I chose an EV on financial grounds, as the tax breaks made any other decision seem daft.
But having had one for over three years, the experience has been so positive that we would definitely stick with it, even if the tax breaks were taken away.
The EV is such a luxurious way to travel - quiet, smooth, vibration-free and generally less tiring than an ICE car. Plus the instant torque means overtaking is far quicker, safer and easier.
Charging from home is also a joy - no more trips to, or stopping at, garages.

But we are fortunate to have more than 1 car, so can still have the more physical thrills of an ICE when we fancy that. (If we could have only 1 car to do everything, it would be a Range Rover P460e hybrid.)

As for range, only twice last year did we “need” an ICE car (I.e. a day when we did more than 250 miles in one day). Once was a trip to York, the other was a trip to Edinburgh, both from Dorset. So for these we used the Rangie.

For the huge majority of our journeys, using the EV is the obvious and sensible choice, as well as being a pleasurable way to travel. So EV ownership works for us and we’ll be sticking with it for the foreseeable future, even as the tax breaks are wound back. And the even better news for us all is that they are getting better and cheaper all the time.

 

[Ewan]

I'm not an EV hater, it's each to their own and with the obvious tax incentives for those who can purchase via company car scheme it is a no brainer. What I do hate though I those that preach how environmentally friendly they are to the planet and that I should get rid of my fossil fuel burners and buy one.

I can't see how any new car can be truly net neutral over a car that has already been built, the production impact alone, regardless of fuel type, must take years to recoup over an existing car even if it is less efficient. EVs by the time you factor in mining all those complex ingredients and then shipping them half way round the world to turn into batteries which you then charge with various power generation options including fossil fuels makes no sense to me.

Heh I might be an old dinosaur but all my cars are old and recycled, make do and mend was what I was brought up on and in most cases that's still how I make do today.

True. But I think the point is more aimed at someone already committed to buying a new car. The aim is to encourage the new car buyer to choose a new EV over a new ICE vehicle.

 

[davy83]

At the risk of invoking some EV haters I have also just bought another EV, and purely because of the cabin noise (or lack of it). I am still trying to find a taxi for my wife's sever tinitus and hyper acousis. So its ludicrously quiet, comfortable and actually quite good to drive. It has more power than it can handle and I quite like that keeps you on your toes. The battery range is a fraction of the published amount but its still winter. All in all i am pretty happy with it, and its doing the job as a taxi i think. The I3 is up for sale.

 

[lozcb]

The aim is to encourage the new car buyer to choose a new EV over a new ICE vehicle

Encourage is rather a loose term , the way the government initially banned all production of ICE engines by 2030 and allowed/encouraged major city councils to apply exorbitant taxes to those unable to afford Ev's was ill thought through and tantamount to coercion to put it mildly and caused a huge financial impact to citizens and industry alike at a time when most were still recovering from the global shutdown due to another ill thought through reaction to the Covid period. Climate emergency was the whole basis for the agenda and the true impact of that misdirection will be born out in the coming years when EV's become 10 plus years old and batteries have to be replaced resulting in most cars to become uneconomical to repair and end up in expensive recycling landfill far greater than any ICE vehicle which can be economically repaired and have a life span of more than 4 times that of any EV.

 

[safrane]

I have nothing against EVs, it would be pretty pathetic to hate an inanimate object.

I don't however think that they should be given any tax breaks, or conversely should we see those who can only afford or want older cars be taxed/punished under dubious green policy.

How EVs have developed into vastly overpriced, over weight SUVs etc is a problem in my eyes, they should be forced to make them as efficient as possible to enable the environmental benefits to be gained ASAP. This would probably pushed them down the route of efficient City cars.

As for the tree hugging brigade; you see some strange behaviour at recharging stations when there are queues, with a perceived hierarchy between EV, PHEV Long range business drivers... which I have seen culminate in violence.

Roll on the new world.

 

[Phil H]

There's nothing wrong with EV's - my shrink says so.

 

[lozcb]

There's nothing wrong with EV's - my shrink says so.

My shrinks says EV purchasers are exacerbating a problem that never existed , therefore are actually part of the problem, the government (unwittingly ) seems to be causing division within the driving community when all motorists really want is freedom which is really all its about .....we dont need to be beating each other up at charging stations lol, whoever heard of such a thing lol I can see EV owners having to take a separate test in charging etiquette and anger management before they are issued a permit

 

[davy83]

I drove the new EQC back to Aberdeen from London and only waited for less than 5 minutes at one charging station. All the other stops were free (not in use and not broken) and worked perfectly. I was quite impressed with the number of new and quite high powered chargers (350kW) that were available. All charging issues on my route showed up on ZapMap and I was able to avoid them quite easily. I went climbing on Sunday and was worried about needing to use a single charger in Braemar, and it was also free when I needed it and worked a treat. Not sure all this scare stories about infrastructure are quite as bad in reality. I think some people expect the charging story to become like petrol where you don't need to plan or worry about your range because the chargers are everywhere and the range is good, and that's probably never going to happen. With a little planning its quite easy to get by with an EV. I charge mine from the house overnight and hardly ever need to use external chargers, and because most people will work this way the public charger network will never be like petrol stations because the demand won't be there.

 

[safrane]

Agree, where the infrastructure is there, there is little issue. But away from the major roads and cities it remains a different story... you only have to read the zap-map chats to see what I mean... and of course you also get the kn**bs who black them with petrol cars due to laziness or arrogance.

 

[zagatoes30]

A solution to on road charging in cities has been found to contravene Dublin planning rules. These have been appearing in the better suburbs but Dublin council have now confirmed they will need planning permission and such permission will be refused as they cross the public highway. Seems better option than cables running across the pavement and some who have lifted the paving slabs to run live cables under neath.

 

[bigbob]

We are on the cusp of the right sort (ie smaller) of BEV cars being built as various governments pump primed company (ie expensive) cars first and manufacturers' also went for top end cars as it was easier to hide the excess costs/inefficient processes of BEV cars there. However, the best place for BEV cars to work is in urban settings where the pollution is more relevant and range anxiety is not really an issue. It is still a middle class phenomenon though as the best solution in my view is for a family to have a small BEV as the main car and a bigger petrol/diesel car for longer runs with more people and more stuff. This fixes the range anxiety point and is greener where it is more important with a public health benefit. How this fits into the large number of people dealing with the cost of living crisis I have no idea.

 

[safrane]

I read today that TESLA are laying off 10% of their world wide workforce (c14k made redundant) and they are also scrapping development of their 'small affordable' EV.

The future is bright, the future is your P45.

 

[Felonious Crud]

I read today that TESLA are laying off 10% of their world wide workforce (c14k made redundant) and they are also scrapping development of their 'small affordable' EV.

The future is bright, the future is your P45.

Tesla is being shorted by more than one hedge fund, and its market share is being heavily attacked by small cheap Chinese EVs. MG sales are likely to beat Tesla in the UK this year due to price.

 

[dickygrace]

Tesla is being shorted by more than one hedge fund, and its market share is being heavily attacked by small cheap Chinese EVs. MG sales are likely to beat Tesla in the UK this year due to price.

Where’s @Wattie when you need him? Ponzi from the start

 

[Chrisb2015]

Did he ever pay up Richard?

 

[dickygrace]

Did he ever pay up Richard?

Yes he did, stand up chap.

 

[Zep]

We are on the cusp of the right sort (ie smaller) of BEV cars being built as various governments pump primed company (ie expensive) cars first and manufacturers' also went for top end cars as it was easier to hide the excess costs/inefficient processes of BEV cars there. However, the best place for BEV cars to work is in urban settings where the pollution is more relevant and range anxiety is not really an issue. It is still a middle class phenomenon though as the best solution in my view is for a family to have a small BEV as the main car and a bigger petrol/diesel car for longer runs with more people and more stuff. This fixes the range anxiety point and is greener where it is more important with a public health benefit. How this fits into the large number of people dealing with the cost of living crisis I have no idea.

The natural extension of this reasonable argument is that our relationship with car ownership will need to change. I know a number of people who use the likes of Zipcar to get access to a car only when they need it. Otherwise they use public transport.

This is the obvious solution to both the cost of and the sheer number of cars in the city.

 

[Zep]

Tesla is being shorted by more than one hedge fund, and its market share is being heavily attacked by small cheap Chinese EVs. MG sales are likely to beat Tesla in the UK this year due to price.

So what you are saying is that the electric cars which were being made by Tesla are now being made by another company? So a bump in the road for Tesla, but hardly the death knell for electric cars.