highway code changes

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,859
So slightly seriously was thinking about this yesterday.

I think the pecking order is:

Pedestrians
Horses?
Cyclists
Motorcyles
Cars
Vans
HGVs

Straight from a practical POV it looks like motorbikes now have carte blanche to overtake at junctions with impunity. Which is clearly madness. In fact I recall public information films that explicitly talked about the risks of overtaking at junctions.
Secondly isn't undertaking pretty much discouraged throughout the rest of the code?

Finally I fear the 'You have more responsibility' appears to be easily translated into 'I can abdicate all responsibility for my own safety and whatever happens, it's someone else's fault'. Which I am pretty sure is not the intention.

C
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,859
Ah! Fair point.

It always struck me as a bit odd, TBH. Effectively 'Don't mow down pedestrians that are in the middle of the road unless you can't avoid it, or are in Death Race 2000'

Now the next thing that strikes me is 'What does the Green Cross Code' say these days? Cross wherever you like?

C
 

ravingfool

Junior Member
Messages
52
So slightly seriously was thinking about this yesterday.

I think the pecking order is:

Pedestrians
Horses?
Cyclists
Motorcyles
Cars
Vans
HGVs

Straight from a practical POV it looks like motorbikes now have carte blanche to overtake at junctions with impunity. Which is clearly madness. In fact I recall public information films that explicitly talked about the risks of overtaking at junctions.
Secondly isn't undertaking pretty much discouraged throughout the rest of the code?

Finally I fear the 'You have more responsibility' appears to be easily translated into 'I can abdicate all responsibility for my own safety and whatever happens, it's someone else's fault'. Which I am pretty sure is not the intention.

C


This is basically the nub of it, all the nonsense to one side.

Give way to more vulnerable road users.

If you're in a car you have a higher level of responsibility to not injure or kill those around you because a moment's distraction can have horrendous consequences if you collide with anyone more vulnerable; be they a child or adult on foot, bike, horse or motorbike!

It does not mean that everyone else has carte-blanche to walk across the road blindfolded.

The rules aren't really changing, only some of the guidance to highlight areas which have been points of contention or which have resulted in accidents, injuries and deaths. It has always been the case that before you maneuver, you must be aware of your surroundings (mirror, signal, mirror, maneuver). The guidance highlights areas where vulnerable road users might be and that you need to be aware of and should be as a driver.

They could include a different set of pictures with multi-lane roads to highlight that when turning left you should be aware of road users (including other cars) on your outside and that you must not swerve right as part of turning left! This is a major bugbear of mine but mostly something that I see whilst driving rather than cycling!

I'm not really sure why people who exclusively drive get so irate about cyclists. Generally, on the other hand, cyclists also drive and therefore don't tend to see the car as a weapon of mass destruction (though I'm sure we all remember examples of cars being used very effectively as weapons by terrorists).

Cyclists do have a fear of drivers though because we've all been in situations where a driver either intentionally or thoughtlessly has needlessly put our lives at risk for example passing too close or on a blind corner or similar.

Inevitably cyclists make mistakes, just as drivers do, the reason for the refresh of the guidance is to try and ask drivers to have a little more care and sympathy for the cyclists who, if you hit with your car, would likely die.

If you are screamed at by a cyclist, they probably thought you were going to kill them. You may have thought you were driving appropriately and left enough space but obviously you gave them a fright and perhaps give a wider berth next time or wait until there is a bigger gap; a few seconds delay is nothing in a car with brakes and an engine doing your accelerating for you.

Please, if you have negative feelings about cyclists for any reason, just consider how you would feel if a member of your family was run over by a car or lorry - dreadful I imagine. Now think how dreadful you'd feel if you had caused that. Now just try to think how easily with a small mistake you could kill the pedestrians or cyclists you pass every day.

This is all about vulnerability; relax, drive a little more cautiously on roads which are shared with everyone.

Roads maintenance is a totally separate issue. Cyclists don't cause anything like the wear and tear that cars do and cycling has many other benefits so it would be a nonsense to require road charging for cycling. I don't know anyone who exclusively cycles and doesn't have a car (save children who do trivial mileage) so most cyclists will be over contributing by comparison to people who are exclusively motorists.

Cycling and the infrastructure for cycling is cheaper, better for everyone's health and therefore reduces NHS burden compared to private car and public transport alternatives. Majority of journeys undertaken in the UK could be easily accomplished on a bike, reducing cost, reducing environmental damage, improving health and reducing transport delays for those carrying out longer journeys by other means.

Cycling should be encouraged by all means and anything which discourages cycling is a negative for us all. I want to feel safe when I cycle and have less traffic for when I drive longer distances. The more people cycling and the more sympathetic other road users become, the better those aims can be achieved.
 

Felonious Crud

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
21,221
Now the next thing that strikes me is 'What does the Green Cross Code' say these days? Cross wherever you like?
Posted a few pages back.

96430

And keep in mind that expressions such as 'the next thing that strikes me...' are a bit insenitive in the context of this discussion.
 

Felonious Crud

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
21,221
This is truly awful and it's hard to comment knowing only what the paper has said, but: in this case, there had been a path and the cost to get the path fixed up so the horses could use it and not the road was £1k. I'd imagine many horses use the road instead of the path. It seems sort of sensible that in the face of a known danger, some time invested clearing the path to keep horses out of the road would have been time and a bit of money well spent. I don't mean to sound callous, but there appears to be a degree of reasonable foreseeability here, not only for the horse riders but also the van driver. Van driver may well have been in the wrong, but if I knew the road was dangerous enough that I had been campaigning to get the path cleared, it seems logical to have knuckled down and cleared the path myself or with some other horse-riding friends.
 
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D Walker

Member
Messages
9,827
Crossing perhaps. Not waiting to cross....

C
Not here in Denmark, if you are stood waiting to cross, cars stop, pedestrians have right of way. You’re driving a ton of metal, if you hit someone it’s your fault. Same as if you’re turning right and a cyclist is going straight on inside you, your fault.
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,859
Not here in Denmark, if you are stood waiting to cross, cars stop, pedestrians have right of way. You’re driving a ton of metal, if you hit someone it’s your fault. Same as if you’re turning right and a cyclist is going straight on inside you, your fault.

Just makes no sense to me. As a pedestrian I am totally capable of not stepping in front of a ton of metal, and waiting until either someone choses to stop, there's a gap in the traffic or I use a crossing.

As a driver, I'm happy to give way where it's safe and sensible to (taking into account of all the other road users)

<shrug>

C
 

mjheathcote

Centenary Club
Messages
9,041
I'm not sure about the give way to pedestrians when turning into a side road.
In a built up area or tourist area with a lot of pedestrians, you would be waiting all day to turn into a side road, unless the road has traffic lights.

Also we have a lot of cyclists around our area doing the 'tour de France' route. The roads aren't the widest, and with parking on the road side for those who have no off road parking, you can just about give sufficient space when passing cyclists if they are on the left of the road, but in the middle of the road, no chance!
 
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MAF260

Member
Messages
7,662
Prepare to have your wallet opened.

I think I could earn them c£5k a day with how many times cars and vans pass me close when walking the dog back to the house for our walks each day.


I’ve no sympathy for the driver. Firstly he drives a Audi Q8. Secondly he refused an awareness course offered to him. Lastly he ignored a fixed penalty fine and so ended up in court charged with driving without due care and attention. Pretty much brought it on himself IMHO. I’m not a fan of cyclists based on my experience of their road use over many years, from red-light jumpers in central London through to arrogant self-entitled mamils where I live, but the driver appears to be the end part of a bell.
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,859
Can't really disagree

I do love the justification though:

Mr Humphreys, said: "The fine is absolutely appalling. I am 77 years of age and the last fine I had was 35 to 40 years ago.
"Other than that I have never had a fine and I have had a licence for 60 years."

"I've not murdered anyone before, so this one should be a freeby" ;)

C
 

midlifecrisis

Member
Messages
16,254
Can't really disagree

I do love the justification though:

Mr Humphreys, said: "The fine is absolutely appalling. I am 77 years of age and the last fine I had was 35 to 40 years ago.
"Other than that I have never had a fine and I have had a licence for 60 years."

"I've not murdered anyone before, so this one should be a freeby" ;)

C
He's not been caught being a ***** before but it appears that after 77 years, he is one.
 

Oneball

Member
Messages
11,130
Prepare to have your wallet opened.

I think I could earn them c£5k a day with how many times cars and vans pass me close when walking the dog back to the house for our walks each day.


I used to think people were just assholes but when this video came out last year I released it’s worse, they just don’t know how wide their cars are.