Formula 1 Qualifying F1

[BennyD]

But Hamilton was no slouch whilst with McLaren, and he doesn't have a reputation for dirty tricks. Even if he's not the flavour of the month, his record is going to take some beating.

As an all-rounder Graham Hill must be in with a shout having F1, Le Mans, and Indy to his credit, and that takes some doing. Then you have Jackie Stewart taking titles in the bad old days of dangerous cars and dangerous circuits; I once read that he was highly regarded by his teams for being easy on the cars whilst still getting results.

PH

Hamiltons record will take some beating but having the most dominant car for the last 7 years has most certainly helped him get to where he is. Russell proved, with his fantastic weekend in Bahrain, that whilst he has the skill, talent and potential to emulate Hamilton the car makes a massive difference. Would Hamilton have got seven World titles and 96 GP wins if he had stayed with MacLaren? IMHO, not a chance. Graham Hill is another that is right up there as well, his achievements are unique and are unlikely to be eclipsed. I have a feeling that when he retires Hamilton will head off to the social scene rather than try other forms of motorsport, and if that does happen it will only help to convince me he’s in it for the plaudits rather than the sport.

 

[Phil H]

Helped yes, but you still need driver ability to consistently deliver as LH has done; there is a tremendous amount of closed season development to get the best out of any car, and I'm sure that's where the LH/Mercedes combination has really scored. I think he will want one more title before he bows out, and after that wouldn't it be nice to see a Hamilton driver academy to promote young bloods on talent rather than bank balance?

The next couple of seasons are going to be interesting with Russell and co vying for the best drives. F1 needs a bit of a shake up and they should be the ones to provide it, notwithstanding rule changes.

PH

 

[midlifecrisis]

Sorry for dragging this back to bikes again, but Mick Doohan won 5 on the trot with the NSR500. It was the best bike on the grid simply because he and the engineers built it around him, I don't see that being an issue. The best racer gets the best equipment.

 

[zagatoes30]

Agree Fangio & G Hill stand out being able to step into anything and drive it fast but in most cases the best drivers are attracted to the best cars and visa versa, Clark @ Lotus, Vettel @ Red Bull, even Senna & Prost took most of their wins in either McLaren or Williams which were both dominant in their day. Totally agree that LH has had a car that is outstanding but I think that his will to win both inspires and leads the team to reach further and his record will stand as the one to aim at for quite some time.

 

[midlifecrisis]

Some drivers do show potential in other cars such as Senna and Mansell in the JPS Lotus, Russell in a Williams and Vettel in a Toro Rosso.

 

[BennyD]

Valentino Rossi was riding the all conquering Honda RCV and won title after title. When he won everyone said of course you did, you’ve got the best bike. When he didn’t, everyone said why didn’t you win you’ve got the best bike. Having got a bit p!ssed off, he walked away and joined Yamaha. At that point Yamaha was the joke on the grid and hadn’t won a GP in years and everybody thought he was mad. They worked hard during the closed season. He won the first GP of the season, the first time anyone had won consecutive MotoGP races on different bikes. He went on to win the title that season as well, the first time anyone has won consecutive titles on different bikes, because he was the best racer of the modern era. In my mind he still is and, most probably always will be, that’s because he took the hard road and put his reputation on the line by going to a team no one thought could win. If Hamilton is so good, why doesn’t he go to another team, like Williams, and make them into winners? He won’t, because he’s in the sweet spot with the best car in the best team and he won’t put his reputation on the line. That’s why, to me, he’s very good, but not a great.

 

[dgmx5]

He already did. Mercedes were not GP winners let alone WDC/WCC winners when he joined.

Would Rosberg + another have achieved what Hamilton + Rosberg/Bottas have done? I very much doubt that.

 

[BennyD]

I guess we’ll never know. However, I would be more convinced of your argument if he went to Williams and made them into Championship winners.

 

[allandwf]

Stole this from another site. But apt here also.

 

[midlifecrisis]

Valentino Rossi was riding the all conquering Honda RCV and won title after title. When he won everyone said of course you did, you’ve got the best bike. When he didn’t, everyone said why didn’t you win you’ve got the best bike. Having got a bit p!ssed off, he walked away and joined Yamaha. At that point Yamaha was the joke on the grid and hadn’t won a GP in years and everybody thought he was mad. They worked hard during the closed season. He won the first GP of the season, the first time anyone had won consecutive MotoGP races on different bikes. He went on to win the title that season as well, the first time anyone has won consecutive titles on different bikes, because he was the best racer of the modern era. In my mind he still is and, most probably always will be, that’s because he took the hard road and put his reputation on the line by going to a team no one thought could win. If Hamilton is so good, why doesn’t he go to another team, like Williams, and make them into winners? He won’t, because he’s in the sweet spot with the best car in the best team and he won’t put his reputation on the line. That’s why, to me, he’s very good, but not a great.

Rossi couldn't do it on a Ducati though. Only Casey Stoner. Rossi took Jeremy Burgess and crew with him to Yamaha who helped.
Williams can't afford drivers so why would Hamilton go there?

 

[BennyD]

Absolutely true; let’s say he couldn’t do it again as only Stoner could ride that three legged cow in a sandpit. However, he was never the same again after Rossi ‘did him’ up the inside at the ‘Corkscrew‘ (Laguna Seca). Does Hamilton really need any more money? He could go there on £25 a week and prove a point that needs to be proved.

 

[Swedish Paul]

Stole this from another site. But apt here also. View attachment 78828

And who do you know that LH has not got along with? I find the dislike distasteful. My gran always used to say “if you don’t have anything nice to say about someone, don’t say anything”.

What an awful folk we have become.

 

[gb-gta]

Rossi couldn't do it on a Ducati though. Only Casey Stoner. Rossi took Jeremy Burgess and crew with him to Yamaha who helped.
Williams can't afford drivers so why would Hamilton go there?

Stoner was an excellent rider. The reason he won on the ducati as well as the Honda was because he learned best how to ride/trust the electronics on the Ducati, he did that better than anyone else could, and still can, on the Ducati.
As I pure rider, I believe rossi edges it. He’s just lost his edge now but in his day was the ultimate ‘Sunday’ rider.
With regard to Hamilton, he is clearly an exceptional driver. However, for many years in F1 you can really only be judged against your team mate, in my opinion. The engineering/aero of the car etc makes the biggest difference, clearly. All F1 drivers are good, but you just cannot win in the slower cars, just consistently beat your team mate.
A long time ago my dad was sat next to Michele alboreto (ferrari) on a flight a few days before a GP. Got chatting and asked how he thought he’d get on. ‘Our car is 1.5 secs a lap slower at this circuit, so no chance’ was the reply. Not the driver, the car. I still have a signed pic of a ferrari F1 car somewhere from that conversation!

In moto GP a rider really can make a difference, unlike F1, what has anyone done on the Honda this year since marquez injured himself? Thats why for years I’ve much preferred watch bike racing, F1 is only exciting when things go wrong, like the last race.

 

[BennyD]

Thanks for you thoughts but I am not responding. Last night taught me that there are those that are influenced heavily by what happens on the other side of the Atlantic and those of us that go through life trying to take the easy path. If Black rights concern you that much, join BLM and do it properly. They don’t concern me because I have no real reason to let them. I will, reluctantly, address one point though; how can the Met Police have a Black Police Officers Association but under no circumstances will they allow a White Police Officers Association? Before you go banging on about “Positive Discrimination” there is no such thing; discrimination is discrimination. Do you, honestly, think an official organisation who’s only entry criteria is the colour of your skin heals division or creates it? Feel free not to respond because I’ve said all I’m going to say on this matter, I’m going to get back to normal and let others fight about this cr4p.

Edit: this out of context reply was answering points from a now deleted post which the Mods have deemed to be inappropriate. Thanks Mods, good call.

 

[Wattie]

Hamiltons record will take some beating but having the most dominant car for the last 7 years has most certainly helped him get to where he is. Russell proved, with his fantastic weekend in Bahrain, that whilst he has the skill, talent and potential to emulate Hamilton the car makes a massive difference. Would Hamilton have got seven World titles and 96 GP wins if he had stayed with MacLaren? IMHO, not a chance. Graham Hill is another that is right up there as well, his achievements are unique and are unlikely to be eclipsed. I have a feeling that when he retires Hamilton will head off to the social scene rather than try other forms of motorsport, and if that does happen it will only help to convince me he’s in it for the plaudits rather than the sport.

Wouldn’t it be fair to say that every driver who has ever won a world Championship has had the dominant car?
The fastest car almost certainly wins over the season when combined with reliability and skill behind the wheel.
When Hamilton first went to Mercedes, it wasn’t the fastest car......he assisted developing that.

 

[outrun]

To bring it back to F1, I see that George Russell has dropped all mention of Williams from his instagram profile and Valterri Bottas has dropped mention of Mercedes from his. I wonder if Toto is using George to push Hamilton’s contract value down and we might actually see a change of line up at Merc next year. It was the case that both had contracts for 2021 with their respective teams but money talks and Toto can acquire Russel and buy out Bottas if that works for them.

I’ve mentioned several times that Hamilton needs PR and a manager, he has neither. I think that he may well be under pressure for next season to reduce his earnings and that it is possible that Mercedes are willing to gamble that if he doesn’t sign, they have a solution. The rules change dramatically in 2022 and i think Hamilton may see that as a gamble as Mercedes may well lose advantage and so I think that might be his natural retirement plan. Toto might hurry that up to prepare for a few years of a strong lead driver, just as they did when Lewis came to them.

No matter what happens, GR getting into that car has created the most interesting moment for ages in F1. Long may that continue.

 

[Phil H]

How long before Toto leaves to 'pursue other interests'?

PH

 

[alfatwo]

I'm sure I'm not the only to notice but in general Hamilton only has to race 2 cars, Bottas and Verstappen!
He's good no doubt abut it, but he's had it to easy over the last few years..
I wonder what went through his mind when he realized the cat was out of the bag when young George lent his car last weekend!

Dave

 

[Wattie]

I'm sure I'm not the only to notice but in general Hamilton only has to race 2 cars, Bottas and Verstappen!
He's good no doubt abut it, but he's had it to easy over the last few years..
I wonder what went through his mind when he realized the cat was out of the bag when young George lent his car last weekend!

Dave

He's probably thinking, "finally some competition".
I would think he's a little bored of whats going on and undoubtedly values victories where he's had to work for them (and not because of the rather frequent Merc pit stop errors or regulation mistakes which requires him to catch up) - rather than just drive off into the distance week after week.

 

[outrun]

How long before Toto leaves to 'pursue other interests'?

PH

He’s already doing that as “it’s taking a toll on his family life” which is code for Suzy wants me to help with the dishes and stop swanning around the world!