Expensive cars!

keith

Member
Messages
638
Following on the previous post regarding cheapest cars, I thought I would make mention of something I've mentioned before, relating to the ever increasing price of new cars particularly EV's at the 'upper end'.
It's wel, known thanks to battery costs a new EV in a relative class, usually costs something akin to a car historically from the class above. EG a Vauxhall Corsa EV costing as much if not more than an Astra.
However there is also another inflationary activity taking place amongst manufacturers, and this I believe as a result in the change of wealth in society. Its well known that there is an ever increasing gap between rich and poor, with the UK in particular becoming almost Dickensian - just witness the homeless people sitting on cardboard close to the Ritz Hotel in London’s Piccadilly. Central London becoming the most obvious example of the vast and super wealthy, with the poorest in society 'existing' close by!
Car manufacturers, given their enormous budgets, like any large organisation who are naturally chasing maximum profits, wil, have been well aware of the new ever increasing class of 'super rich' and by looking at the ever increasing record sales from Rolls Royce Bentley Ferrari etc, realise this is the biggest growth sector. The only limitations being brand acceptance, which is where the likes of Maserati Jaguar and other brands like Lotus come in.
The accepted price point amongst the rich is anything around £120-£150k. They are happy to pay this, and in fact its relatively cheap compared to the super expensive cars I mentioned above.
Here are some examples of what I mean - a massive hike in price for essentially the same car that in its previous itteraraction was more than 50 grand less - the Maserati GT - still a petrol car, although a ridiculously more expensive EV version is coming was i think 90k new or there abouts depending on model and spec. The new model, essentially the same car in terms of image etc is now 160k! At 90k the Maserati was somewhat of a bargain for perceived image, but now the price of a Bentley Continental GT, if i were in that position, i wouldn't go straight for the Bentley!
Then we have the yet to be released Ghibli/QP replacement, which is by all accounts wil, be only EV, but thanks to this acceptance amongst the new rich, that a 'good car' particularly in the new ever growing class of the 4 door coupe/gt, a sector replacing the executive saloon, a 120k seems like a 'fair' price. What happened to the 50-70k sector that the Ghibli and current QP exist in...
Jaguar launch there no range of EV's next year, a Manufacturer who used to sell executive cars from say 40k onwards. Well like Maserati, why sell cars in a sector where the old middle class have been hollowed out by recession and massive job cuts, when surprise surprise you can get a slice of the ever expanding 'really rich', so it's understood their new range will kick off at that magic 100k plus figure if not a lot more.
Lotus launch their new 4 door coupe very soon in the shape of the gargantuan Emeya- rich people don't seem to care about how big their cars are, in fact the bigger the better judging by their Electra SUV. And from the Electra we can see a price tag of probably 120 upwards.
There a plenty of other examples from the likes of Polestar, although I think they are really going to struggle at this new price point with their version of the Emeya.
This admittedly very long post has rather turned into a rant about how incredibly unjust society is becoming, but also how cynically certain car manufacturers are looking to 'cash in' on the scandalous ever increasing divisions in society.
If anyone has read this far, and indeed understand the rambling point I'm making, I would welcome their thoughts.
Maybe I'm just becoming bitter and twisted in my old age!!
 

ChrisQP09

Member
Messages
2,997
Relativity unfortunately!
Those with more money perceive value in different ways.

I know extremely wealthy people who barter over the cost of a pint. I also know many who perceive their wealth as more than what is actually the case yet get themselves in debt to finance 6 figure cars.

I struggle to validate any car worth more than a small family home.

The long and short of it is the brands respond to what society has been preached. Without demand, there is no supply and as long as people require these objects somebody will scratch the itch.
 

Ewan

Member
Messages
6,812
But it’s not just cars that have gone up in price over recent years. So has the price of (in no particular order) food, energy, gold, houses, etc.
Nearly all businesses charge as much as they think the market will swallow. So I’m not sure this is anything particularly unusual.
 

Scaf

Member
Messages
6,583
Judging wealth is an interesting topic, personally I think material things such as cars and houses can more often a judgement of “income” rather than wealth - which in my mind are very different things.

Many very wealthy people drive old, not very valuable cars and may not have massive incomes (when compared to their wealth) but could be living in a huge country pile mortgage free.

At the other end of the scale, you have people with no “wealth” but good incomes - so they can have big mortgages and car leases, but in reality own nothing.
 

lozcb

Member
Messages
12,565
Judging wealth is an interesting topic, personally I think material things such as cars and houses can more often a judgement of “income” rather than wealth - which in my mind are very different things.

Many very wealthy people drive old, not very valuable cars and may not have massive incomes (when compared to their wealth) but could be living in a huge country pile mortgage free.

At the other end of the scale, you have people with no “wealth” but good incomes - so they can have big mortgages and car leases, but in reality own nothing.
I always found it strange that the latter were aptly called Smiths and Jones's
 

Big lou

Junior Member
Messages
86
I just hope it all equates to massive depreciation where I can rub my hands together in 8 years and grab a 30k mileage 100k plus car for 20 grand. Similar like granturismos now and Aston martins etc from 2008-12.

The world is a bit mental at the minute.
 

philw696

Member
Messages
25,471
I just hope it all equates to massive depreciation where I can rub my hands together in 8 years and grab a 30k mileage 100k plus car for 20 grand. Similar like granturismos now and Aston martins etc from 2008-12.

The world is a bit mental at the minute.
I've always wanted value for money in the cars I've had and probably the best was the Ferrari 456 that I bought for £25,000 knowing the first owner had paid £160,000 just blows my mind.
My Ms French's Fiat 500C cost €21,000 over here and we paid €7,000
Myself I drive a bargain basement Jaguar XJ6 but again the first owner would have paid a huge amount back in 1997.
 

AlpineAlex

Member
Messages
191
I've always wanted value for money in the cars I've had and probably the best was the Ferrari 456 that I bought for £25,000 knowing the first owner had paid £160,000 just blows my mind.
My Ms French's Fiat 500C cost €21,000 over here and we paid €7,000
Myself I drive a bargain basement Jaguar XJ6 but again the first owner would have paid a huge amount back in 1997.

It always blows my mind that it's the same car and we're all the same people yet no one wanted the 456 for over £30k, I'd have absolutely adored a CL600 back in 2004. Yet simply because of passage of time I could pick one up for £7k and I don't want one, because it has dated and gone out of fashion. Which makes no sense and shows how pathetic we are as humans.
 

keith

Member
Messages
638
Whilst I have no doubt this newly amassed wealth is created by honest means in the overwhelming majority of cases, you do have to wonder how many have profited from lousy national and local government spending decisions.
PPE being the obvious example, but how many local councils (Birmingham!?!), have given contracts to suppliers and contractors who are ripping them off…
We are paying an enormous tax burden, but how much is being wasted. I heard one example from the NHS. Apparently the cleaners couldn’t clean the lights in the hospitals because it’s dangerous using step ladders, so a contract has been awarded to rent-o-kill. At least so I heard…
Could it be rent o kill are ripping off the NHS, and who came up with this and many other crazy decisions…
How many are being enriched by all this daft nonsense….
 

AlpineAlex

Member
Messages
191
Whilst I have no doubt this newly amassed wealth is created by honest means in the overwhelming majority of cases, you do have to wonder how many have profited from lousy national and local government spending decisions.
PPE being the obvious example, but how many local councils (Birmingham!?!), have given contracts to suppliers and contractors who are ripping them off…
We are paying an enormous tax burden, but how much is being wasted. I heard one example from the NHS. Apparently the cleaners couldn’t clean the lights in the hospitals because it’s dangerous using step ladders, so a contract has been awarded to rent-o-kill. At least so I heard…
Could it be rent o kill are ripping off the NHS, and who came up with this and many other crazy decisions…
How many are being enriched by all this daft nonsense….
The fact the covid tracking app cost £1bn to develop is insane.

It was nothing more than a QR code reader and a backend database. I could've done it and my coding skills are very amateur.

Yet I think during the crisis the government had to be seen to be spending enough money on it to show they're taking it seriously, so if it all went wrong at least they didn't skimp on it. Whoever got that contract must've been wetting themselves with delight.
 

keith

Member
Messages
638
The fact the covid tracking app cost £1bn to develop is insane.

It was nothing more than a QR code reader and a backend database. I could've done it and my coding skills are very amateur.

Yet I think during the crisis the government had to be seen to be spending enough money on it to show they're taking it seriously, so if it all went wrong at least they didn't skimp on it. Whoever got that contract must've been wetting themselves with delight.
Yep my point exactly. I wonder what car(s) that person is now lucky enough to have.
Perhaps to widen my point, both at a national and infinitely more so, at an international level we have seen what can only be described as an explosion of wealth that the world probably hasn't seen for a hundred years.
Take Eastern Europe and Russia with the creation of the billionaire oligarchs, or these international super corporations such as Amazon etc. They have enjoyed, partly thanks to the advances in data technology, the ability to target and expand a customer base that would have been unimaginable even 50 years ago. Not only target new customers but through the use of technology and data gathering, to make sure they can extract the absolute maximum amount that they believe ( and technology will no doubt be used to calculate the figure) they can extract from the customer.
In the sixties were there any corporations that could co fund, or evenly completely fund space missions?
So from the vast wealth created by these people, they need to spend it on something. Cars being an obvious example, so enter those like the rare car broker Simon Kidston, who thanks to an absolute glut of eager customer's can afford a villa amongst other homes and helicopters etc in Pebble Beach for the Concourse show, where he can do business with the billionaires who frequent the show and who own and buy/sell some of the multi million pound cars...
The luxury sector in every area, is enjoying the extraction of wealth from those individuals who have extracted the wealth from the 'great unwashed' who are now reliant on the services they provide.
I suppose its always been like this throughout history, it's just in recent years this vast wealth for some as increased at an unprecedented rate. Maybe look back to the eitheenth and nineteenth century's where you had the aristocracy in their stately homes and the peasants paying them taxes to farm a bit of their land...
All very political, and from someone who beleive it or not is very far from a socialist!!! To say nothing of a million miles from a car forum!!!
 

MarkMas

Chief pedant
Messages
8,934
TBH, I am much to impatient to read the whole of all these essays...

But I will say that the data suggests that, apart from a brief period from about 1965 to 1980,wealth and income inequality (in most countries) is no higher now that it was from the start of human civilisation.

Think Dickensian workhouses, Medieval serfs, Roman slaves, etc vs Pharohs, Vanderbilts, Rhodes, etc.

I'm not saying that's a good thing, just that it has been commonplace for centuries.
 

MarkMas

Chief pedant
Messages
8,934
The fact the covid tracking app cost £1bn to develop is insane.

It was nothing more than a QR code reader and a backend database. I could've done it....

The Chief Pedant Writes:

Actually, according to the National Audit Office, the App cost £35 million. A lot, but far from the £1 billion 'fact' posted here.

 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,793
But I will say that the data suggests that, apart from a brief period from about 1965 to 1980,wealth and income inequality (in most countries) is no higher now that it was from the start of human civilisation.


It would certainly be interesting to see some hard data to back the original assertions.

C
 

AlpineAlex

Member
Messages
191
I didn't think I'd find myself being pulled in to this debate on this forum but here we are.

I actually think we focus too much on the ultra wealthy. For example, if we think Jeff Bezos has too much money, so we hypothetically take it all away from him and redistribute it evenly across the world, it would merely be an inflationary effect similar to the covid furlough scheme and stimulus cheques in the US, now we've got inflation because of it and we're trying to take it out the system.

Then, after a few years do you know where the money would end up? Back with Jeff Bezos. Because everyone will use their money to buy stuff off Amazon.

So my point is, life is about perspective and in the UK the majority of people have access to better comfort, technology, medical care, clean water, heating etc than the King of England did just 300 years ago.

But just because we're aware that these people have these amazing things like yachts and Bugattis it makes us feel poor, but if you didn't know they existed you wouldn't feel that way.

The best and only thing to do is to look at the hand you've been dealt and make the absolute best of it.
 

dickygrace

www.richardgracecars.co.uk
Messages
7,339
I didn't think I'd find myself being pulled in to this debate on this forum but here we are.

I actually think we focus too much on the ultra wealthy. For example, if we think Jeff Bezos has too much money, so we hypothetically take it all away from him and redistribute it evenly across the world, it would merely be an inflationary effect similar to the covid furlough scheme and stimulus cheques in the US, now we've got inflation because of it and we're trying to take it out the system.

Then, after a few years do you know where the money would end up? Back with Jeff Bezos. Because everyone will use their money to buy stuff off Amazon.

So my point is, life is about perspective and in the UK the majority of people have access to better comfort, technology, medical care, clean water, heating etc than the King of England did just 300 years ago.

But just because we're aware that these people have these amazing things like yachts and Bugattis it makes us feel poor, but if you didn't know they existed you wouldn't feel that way.

The best and only thing to do is to look at the hand you've been dealt and make the absolute best of it.
Well said, if we here, on a Maserati forum wish to plead poverty, we need to have a good look around, and a glance in the mirror.
 
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philw696

Member
Messages
25,471
@AlpineAlex
Totally agree and for myself personally the Best thing to date for myself was changing my lifestyle and coming to France.
Although 10 years ago I didn't know that was the card I'd be dealt as I was married to wife no2.
Met Ms French and everything changed.
Glad to have experienced many nice things but now living simpler do I miss them not really as I often still see and hear them.
 

AlpineAlex

Member
Messages
191
@AlpineAlex
Totally agree and for myself personally the Best thing to date for myself was changing my lifestyle and coming to France.
Although 10 years ago I didn't know that was the card I'd be dealt as I was married to wife no2.
Met Ms French and everything changed.
Glad to have experienced many nice things but now living simpler do I miss them not really as I often still see and hear them.
That sounds great.

I also try to live the simple life. I definitely suffer from consumerism when it comes to cars, always looking for the next thing as the buzz of the last wears off. Consumerism is a cause of a lot of suffering in society I think.

I follow David Beckham on Instagram and what fascinates me most is that he has all of the money in the world, could literally get anything he wanted in life, and he gets most excited about his Bee keeping to make honey, his chickens laying eggs, baking and his dogs. All things we could be doing today if we wanted to.
 

philw696

Member
Messages
25,471
That sounds great.

I also try to live the simple life. I definitely suffer from consumerism when it comes to cars, always looking for the next thing as the buzz of the last wears off. Consumerism is a cause of a lot of suffering in society I think.

I follow David Beckham on Instagram and what fascinates me most is that he has all of the money in the world, could literally get anything he wanted in life, and he gets most excited about his Bee keeping to make honey, his chickens laying eggs, baking and his dogs. All things we could be doing today if we wanted to.
Absolutely 100%
When living in New Zealand we had Chickens but the 3 Bee Hives and thousands of Bees were amazing and we really need them to survive hardest working creatures in the World.
Chicken's on the other hand can be a pain in the àss digging holes everywhere in the Orchard.