Choosing my Quattroporte, a little help needed

[Samstagmoonyham]

I drove a QP with Duoselect gearbox and was totally smitten. Strongly recommend you drive one and find out. If you are concerned about the cost of a new clutch once in a blue moon, or variators ( their costs are similar) maybe an alfa would be a really good ownership proposition.
However well done looking into Maserati. They are very nice to drive.
Wanderer can tell you all you need to know about the duoselect ownership proposition - I think he has already written most of the big stuff already....

Then again, I did fancy a 4.7 and there were a few within budget.
However I ended up buying an absolutely delightful 4.2 QPV Executive GT with ZF gearbox. It has far more performance than I will ever use frequently (remember that even this little engines delivers around 400BHP), changes down enthusiastically at the drop of a hat, thereby differentiating itself from all those (actually very nice, but to my mind not nearly so nice as a QP) German mile munchers with forced induction, handles well (just look a the glorious suspension !) and has a host of nice goodies including gear change paddles, sun roof, massage seats, 4 zone climate control, a delightful exhaust note and the best shape of any car in the whole wide world*
*Note that the two door models look pretty stunning too, but sadly they only have two doors.

Hope this helps

I have Alfas now lol, I'm looking for something to replace my GTA as I have grown out of it so to speak, hard ride and low ground clearance start to get on ones wick, I hate German vehicles so I had to real options, the Jaguar XFR, this engine is rather ok in terms of its character and can also cost thousands when the very badly engineered timing chains fail, this car still appealed due to its massive levels of power however. And of course a Maserati, preferably one with a Ferrari engine in it as that's the only way I'm still going to have Busso V6 levels of character, it would also mean I still have an all Italian collection which is of some importance to me aha.


I don't have an issue with paying out for the variators, well, as long as it's not stupid money, but the thing with that is, you can replace the variators and install some check valves to hopefully stop the issue ever coming up again, the duoselect is always going to be a maintenance item, isn't there a very expensive actuator/selector mechanism that can go as well?

I'll be honest if I was looking for the F1 experience I would be looking at a GS or maybe a GT with their more sporty edge to them.

I wouldn't be aversed to an Executive GT either, lots of gizmos to keep busy with aha.

 

[Samstagmoonyham]

Don’t diss the DS, 3-4 grand for a clutch every 4-5 years is buttons in the Maso-sphere. Plus it’s a near as you’d get to F1 driving. ZF is fine but whereas you drive the DS, the ZF drives you. Try and compare…

I admire your passion and commitment to the Duoselect but it's really not for me, glad it's working out ok for you though.

I could make an argument for it in a Ferrari but in a 2 ton luxury sports saloon I either want an interactive auto with proven reliability and universal application from the likes of ZF or even better still a nice manual with a weighty clutch and shifter.

 

[Samstagmoonyham]

Zf don't need a handbrake. Never used it. Variator replacement and machining is 2.5 to 3k, preventative is 900-1k but it can be hidden simply by turning over for a few seconds to get the oil back up to the top if the dealer is a bit iffy and knows they have the issue. Subframe is going to be dependant on where and how the car has been used. Daily, winter, high salt use areas or coastal. History is key.

Yes I suppose you can always put it in park can't you? But unfortunately I should imagine it would be an issue come mot time if you had handbrake issues aha.

That's not hideous money tbh, not for what it is, only the same as a jaguar timing job which is about as common on the AJ133 engine.

Yup, that sounds about right for a used car dealer, I would make sure to get a comprehensive warranty out of whatever dealer I went to or no sale me thinks.

I am a little shocked by the corrosion on these given the original asking price tbf. Even that 09 plate GT Sport they had on Top Gear had an MOT failure on corrosion that strikes me as a bit on an Achilles heel.

 

[Samstagmoonyham]

You could run a QP with rattling variators for years, with no real damage to the engine. So it’s not too much of a worry. It‘s more that a rattle sound on start up is unpleasant, hence many people have it sorted. Very roughly, it’s a £2.5k job.

That's a relief!

 

[CatmanV2]

Yes I suppose you can always put it in park can't you?

You have to put in it park. It won't give you the key, otherwise

C

 

[zagatoes30]

I drove a QP with Duoselect gearbox and was totally smitten. Strongly recommend you drive one and find out. If you are concerned about the cost of a new clutch once in a blue moon, or variators ( their costs are similar) maybe an alfa would be a really good ownership proposition.
However well done looking into Maserati. They are very nice to drive.
Wanderer can tell you all you need to know about the duoselect ownership proposition - I think he has already written most of the big stuff already....

Then again, I did fancy a 4.7 and there were a few within budget.
However I ended up buying an absolutely delightful 4.2 QPV Executive GT with ZF gearbox. It has far more performance than I will ever use frequently (remember that even this little engines delivers around 400BHP), changes down enthusiastically at the drop of a hat, thereby differentiating itself from all those (actually very nice, but to my mind not nearly so nice as a QP) German mile munchers with forced induction, handles well (just look a the glorious suspension !) and has a host of nice goodies including gear change paddles, sun roof, massage seats, 4 zone climate control, a delightful exhaust note and the best shape of any car in the whole wide world*
*Note that the two door models look pretty stunning too, but sadly they only have two doors.

Hope this helps

WHS just about covers it

 

[zagatoes30]

I have Alfas now lol, I'm looking for something to replace my GTA as I have grown out of it so to speak, hard ride and low ground clearance start to get on ones wick, I hate German vehicles so I had to real options, the Jaguar XFR, this engine is rather ok in terms of its character and can also cost thousands when the very badly engineered timing chains fail, this car still appealed due to its massive levels of power however. And of course a Maserati, preferably one with a Ferrari engine in it as that's the only way I'm still going to have Busso V6 levels of character, it would also mean I still have an all Italian collection which is of some importance to me aha.

If you want an Italian exec saloon with character and less cost the facelift Alfa 166 takes some beating and if you can find a 3.2Ti you get the glorious engine from your 147 along with a manual box, great car but not a Maserati

 

[daverichardson]

Don't forget the QP Exec GT (ZF) a very cool car with a beautiful interior
My old one..............

 

[Samstagmoonyham]

If you want an Italian exec saloon with character and less cost the facelift Alfa 166 takes some beating and if you can find a 3.2Ti you get the glorious engine from your 147 along with a manual box, great car but not a Maserati

I don't want a 166 either, the amount you need to spend to sort out these cars to handle, perform and ride the way they should is Maserati money anyway, my GTA probably has about 10k or more of mods on it to achieve what it does and whilst the 24 valve Busso V6 is completely fantastic, the 12 valve version in my 164 absolutely blows it out of the water, it's much cheaper to run, it's simple to work on, it's more characterful, and would also make a 166 feel bloated and unresponsive. Trust me, I have the Alfa Romeo side of things covered lol.

If I was going to get another I would be sticking to my original plan and looking for a second 164, a 75 or an Alfetta GTV6, but again, aside from the 164, they are substantially more more than a Quattroporte is now or a Ghibli will be In a few years and of course are delicate machines with the GTV6 also being incredibly rust prone with the gear change from ****.

There is also no Alfa specialist with the timing tools to sort the 3.2 engine that I can actually trust within 70 miles of me, 140 mile round trips where you have to drop your car off aren't useful, I'd never trust a dealer with a Busso either. Whereas there is a certain exotic car independent within about 35 miles of me.

 

[Samstagmoonyham]

Don't forget the QP Exec GT (ZF) a very cool car with a beautiful interior
My old one..............

View attachment 88044

Yeah, I wouldn't dismiss one of these, I reckon what I'm looking for is either the Base model of this time (hopefully not), the Executive or Sport GT these seem to have a pretty good entry price, with the gearbox I want and sensibly priced brakes too!

 

[zagatoes30]

I don't want a 166 either, the amount you need to spend to sort out these cars to handle, perform and ride the way they should is Maserati money anyway, my GTA probably has about 10k or more of mods on it to achieve what it does and whilst the 24 valve Busso V6 is completely fantastic, the 12 valve version in my 164 absolutely blows it out of the water, it's much cheaper to run, it's simple to work on, it's more characterful, and would also make a 166 feel bloated and unresponsive. Trust me, I have the Alfa Romeo side of things covered lol.

If I was going to get another I would be sticking to my original plan and looking for a second 164, a 75 or an Alfetta GTV6, but again, aside from the 164, they are substantially more more than a Quattroporte is now or a Ghibli will be In a few years and of course are delicate machines with the GTV6 also being incredibly rust prone with the gear change from ****.

There is also no Alfa specialist with the timing tools to sort the 3.2 engine that I can actually trust within 70 miles of me, 140 mile round trips where you have to drop your car off aren't useful, I'd never trust a dealer with a Busso either. Whereas there is a certain exotic car independent within about 35 miles of me.

No problem just covering bases and as an Alfa man myself it would be remiss of me not to make suggestions.

Totally agree on the 12v Busso engine hence why I have never been tempted to upgrade the engine in my SZ. Transaxle cars, IMO, suit the 2.0 4 pot much more than the V6 Busso, my tweaked 116 Giulietta drives, handles, goes and stops so much better than it did when it came out of the factory with the perfect balance of induction roar from the carbs and a sweet exhaust snarl just love it but it does have a significant number of changes under the skin but my real hooligan is the 155Q4, it's currently undergoing a full rebuild from the ground up but prior to that it was a fire breathing beast of a car.

Good luck in your search it looks like you know what your after

 

[Wanderer]

I admire your passion and commitment to the Duoselect but it's really not for me, glad it's working out ok for you though.

I could make an argument for it in a Ferrari but in a 2 ton luxury sports saloon I either want an interactive auto with proven reliability and universal application from the likes of ZF or even better still a nice manual with a weighty clutch and shifter.

Try one! You can try mine if in West Yorks.

Ah tell thi' there's no finer feeling than driving the back roads round here, tractor or slow-moving car ahead, in 5th or 6th, up the revs to 4.5k, double-paddle down and wowser! You would never think a 2 ton lump could accelerate like that and stay poised no drama, just sheer adrenaline.

 

[Alan Surrey]

Yeah, I wouldn't dismiss one of these, I reckon what I'm looking for is either the Base model of this time (hopefully not), the Executive or Sport GT these seem to have a pretty good entry price, with the gearbox I want and sensibly priced brakes too!

Don't forget that the factory offered a huge options list for these cars. You can find "base models" fitted with options that bring them up to the "Executive" standard of nice playthings.
There's nothing for it but to read the fine print of every advert to find out what has been fitted to each car.
But always, condition is the key to a good ownership experience. You can buy it or, in some cases, add it at some cost soon after buying.

 

[Samstagmoonyham]

No problem just covering bases and as an Alfa man myself it would be remiss of me not to make suggestions.

Totally agree on the 12v Busso engine hence why I have never been tempted to upgrade the engine in my SZ. Transaxle cars, IMO, suit the 2.0 4 pot much more than the V6 Busso, my tweaked 116 Giulietta drives, handles, goes and stops so much better than it did when it came out of the factory with the perfect balance of induction roar from the carbs and a sweet exhaust snarl just love it but it does have a significant number of changes under the skin but my real hooligan is the 155Q4, it's currently undergoing a full rebuild from the ground up but prior to that it was a fire breathing beast of a car.

Good luck in your search it looks like you know what your after

I didn't even notice your picture actually. Very nice indeed!!! how's the resin body holding up? I'd never fettle with something that close to perfection either! And thats ok, I did have a think about another Alfa for a while there, but nothing really matches the oldies and said oldies are starting to fetch big money in good condition now, well, apart from the 164 which is a real dark horse tbh, the build quality is really quite good all round and the way it tackles the road belittles its size.

Yes, even their four pots are absolutely glorious too right up to the Twin spark. Lets be honest thats a Delta Integrale with a boot (in the absolute best way), what a car! they must be so rare at this point.

 

[Samstagmoonyham]

Don't forget that the factory offered a huge options list for these cars. You can find "base models" fitted with options that bring them up to the "Executive" standard of nice playthings.
There's nothing for it but to read the fine print of every advert to find out what has been fitted to each car.
But always, condition is the key to a good ownership experience. You can buy it or, in some cases, add it at some cost soon after buying.

Interesting thoughts. The main bits and bobs I would want are the Sunroof the slightly better Zaust of the Sport GT (if im not mistaken) but I am sure that the exhaust would be an easy fix anyway.
Some nice to haves for me would be the seat gizmos such as heated and cooled and the massager stuff but not in any way essential.

Does the base come without Skyhook? if so perhaps its a semi economical choice repairs wise dare I say it lol.

 

[Samstagmoonyham]

Try one! You can try mine if in West Yorks.

Ah tell thi' there's no finer feeling than driving the back roads round here, tractor or slow-moving car ahead, in 5th or 6th, up the revs to 4.5k, double-paddle down and wowser! You would never think a 2 ton lump could accelerate like that and stay poised no drama, just sheer adrenaline.

Whilst I would take you up on this offer I am down in Cornwall in the South West.
Out of curiousity did you try a ZF one before you fell to the sporty charms of the Duoselect?

 

[zagatoes30]

I didn't even notice your picture actually. Very nice indeed!!! how's the resin body holding up? I'd never fettle with something that close to perfection either! And thats ok, I did have a think about another Alfa for a while there, but nothing really matches the oldies and said oldies are starting to fetch big money in good condition now, well, apart from the 164 which is a real dark horse tbh, the build quality is really quite good all round and the way it tackles the road belittles its size.

Yes, even their four pots are absolutely glorious too right up to the Twin spark. Lets be honest thats a Delta Integrale with a boot (in the absolute best way), what a car! they must be so rare at this point.

Body is fine fortunately she was originally owned by an Alfa main board director so panel gaps are surprisingly good. Most of the well known micro blistering was dealt with a few years ago, a recent repaint last year addressed some of the original build imperfections as well as the gravel rash she picked up being thrashed around trackways. Mechanically she is sound, well used but never abused, braking is a challenge especially on the track as heat builds up in front arches.

Q4s are a tad rare but mine is a late wide body version which is a bit of a unicorn model, great car when on form and a complete ***** when not. Other than my Maserati probably the most expensive car to run I have ever owned but smiles for miles unbeatable

 

[Gazcw]

Interesting thoughts. The main bits and bobs I would want are the Sunroof the slightly better Zaust of the Sport GT (if im not mistaken) but I am sure that the exhaust would be an easy fix anyway.
Some nice to haves for me would be the seat gizmos such as heated and cooled and the massager stuff but not in any way essential.

Does the base come without Skyhook? if so perhaps its a semi economical choice repairs wise dare I say it lol.

Only the 4.7 GT S have valved exhausts. You are going to have to fit larini or similar and associated hoses, vacuum solenoid and a controller if you want them on a 4.2. Only GT S come without skyhook from memory.
If you want to hear a 4.7S with modified back box and x pipe then you need to watch this:

Or

 

[Samstagmoonyham]

Body is fine fortunately she was originally owned by an Alfa main board director so panel gaps are surprisingly good. Most of the well known micro blistering was dealt with a few years ago, a recent repaint last year addressed some of the original build imperfections as well as the gravel rash she picked up being thrashed around trackways. Mechanically she is sound, well used but never abused, braking is a challenge especially on the track as heat builds up in front arches.

Q4s are a tad rare but mine is a late wide body version which is a bit of a unicorn model, great car when on form and a complete * when not. Other than my Maserati probably the most expensive car to run I have ever owned but smiles for miles unbeatable

Very nice, but the question is do you need to brake? Lol I read that the SZ can pull something insane like 1.3G round a corner! What a machine.

I can imagine parts hunting on your Q4 is somewhat fun?

 

[Samstagmoonyham]

Only the 4.7 GT S have valved exhausts. You are going to have to fit larini or similar and associated hoses, vacuum solenoid and a controller if you want them on a 4.2. Only GT S come without skyhook from memory.
If you want to hear a 4.7S with modified back box and x pipe then you need to watch this:

Or

Aye, the 4.7 is a wonderful sound, as it is in the 8C and the Disco Volante.

I was talking about the Sport GT having an X pipe and central resonator delete well, at least that's what the spec sheet I find on here says anyhow.