Changing out the starter motor

[Chris Eggleton]

Just finishing changing out the starter motor on my 3200GT. Quite frankly the manual is rubbish! The sequence of actions is wrong on many of the steps, and several pipes and connections do not have to be disconnected. I will do a step by step post soonest but basically,
a. the first step (not mentioned) is drain coolant; isolate battery (mentioned);
b. disconnect throttle body hoses
c. then follow the steps in the manual to disconnect the injector electrical connections, and loosen the bolts holding the inlet manifold to the block;
d. lift inlet manifold, fuel rails, and tag and disconnect the vaccum lines that are preventing you lifting the manifold off the engine, self evident, BLOCK the holes in the engine now revealed to prevent anything going into the combustion chambers
e. unbolt the water manifold from the block, again tagging and marking the hoses to allow removal from the engine;
f. now you can unbolt the starter motor, earths, and electrical connections;
g. clean the valley - it is full of broken electrical wire spiral covers and generall grit;
h. replace knock sensors (as required), apparently a good thing to do now you have come this far;
i. clean everything else, with degreaser, rags and a wet and dry vaccum;
j. reassemble using new parts, gaskets, as required.

 

[Lozzer]

Just finishing changing out the starter motor on my 3200GT. Quite frankly the manual is rubbish! The sequence of actions is wrong on many of the steps, and several pipes and connections do not have to be disconnected. I will do a step by step post soonest but basically,
a. the first step (not mentioned) is drain coolant; isolate battery (mentioned);
b. disconnect throttle body hoses
c. then follow the steps in the manual to disconnect the injector electrical connections, and loosen the bolts holding the inlet manifold to the block;
d. lift inlet manifold, fuel rails, and tag and disconnect the vaccum lines that are preventing you lifting the manifold off the engine, self evident, BLOCK the holes in the engine now revealed to prevent anything going into the combustion chambers
e. unbolt the water manifold from the block, again tagging and marking the hoses to allow removal from the engine;
f. now you can unbolt the starter motor, earths, and electrical connections;
g. clean the valley - it is full of broken electrical wire spiral covers and generall grit;
h. replace knock sensors (as required), apparently a good thing to do now you have come this far;
i. clean everything else, with degreaser, rags and a wet and dry vaccum;
j. reassemble using new parts, gaskets, as required.

If it's starter motor only you don't need to remove the water spider from the block, you only need to undo one of the heater hoses to change it out. Knock sensors yes, it needs to come off for one of them.

 

[davy83]

I would change the knock sensors for sure. Watch there is a heavy earth strap on the bellhousing side of one of the starter bolts which is an earth to the car body and its easy to miss this if you are working from the engine bay. The underside of the intake manifold is one huge cover, check the screws are not loose and loctite and tighten as required. The water spider also its worth replacing the hoses with silicone as these short hoses get brittle and are worth replacing.

 

[conaero]

If you do the knock sensors go extremely easy on their bolts, they snap off in the block, then you have a big problem.

Soak…heat…..etc

 

[Chris Eggleton]

If it's starter motor only you don't need to remove the water spider from the block, you only need to undo one of the heater hoses to change it out. Knock sensors yes, it needs to come off for one of them.

Loz, if you can get the starter motor out without removing the water manifold you are a better man than me. I admit that removing anything off the engine comes with risk of leaks etc. but I found it difficult to see how I could manoeuvre the starter motor around the legs of the manifold, so took it off, and replaced both knock sensors as Dave Shanks suggested. The valley was also full of crud so I gave it a really good clean.
The new Bosch starter motor Dave recommended is a *******! It starts the Maserati from cold in seconds, and it definitely spins faster than the old unit. Interestingly, the motor I purchased from Autodoc was a reconditioned unit, from Ukraine (doubtless before the Russians started bombing them), but whatever it seems like a really great upgrade.
Someone has also mentioned the earthing strap on the starter motor retaining bolts: mine had two straps, one each side of the longer/larger centre bolt. This was a tad difficult to tighten and keep at a sensible angle but not insurmountable, just annoying.
No trouble with knock sensor bolts all came out easily, no heating or penetrating fluid required, as did the inlet manifold screws, although one was a bit tight and I replaced it with a new one, as the allen key drive was a bit damaged. I did not replace the screws with stainless steel torx head, as I couldn't locate a suitable replacement, and stainless screws are not magnetic so locating them, and removal would be inconvenient without the use of the magnet on a stick.
Incidentally, whilst I had the inlet manifold off, I managed to replace both A/C lines, one had gone porous, and was sweating air conditioning gas/fluid. This job is to be avoided if possible, it takes significant patience, and the car in the air to get at the fire wall and compressor/reciever dryer connections. Having said that it is possible, something I doubted, and was advised by the local air conditioning shop that they would have to remake the lines and re route around the front of the car: at vast expense. So all good, 'Mario' the Maserati back on the road!
Lastly, the manual alluded to some plenum cover plate and associated gasket: my car had neither. Once the inlet manifold was removed you were into the valley??

 

[philw696]

Loz, if you can get the starter motor out without removing the water manifold you are a better man than me. I admit that removing anything off the engine comes with risk of leaks etc. but I found it difficult to see how I could manoeuvre the starter motor around the legs of the manifold, so took it off, and replaced both knock sensors as Dave Shanks suggested. The valley was also full of crud so I gave it a really good clean.
The new Bosch starter motor Dave recommended is a *******! It starts the Maserati from cold in seconds, and it definitely spins faster than the old unit. Interestingly, the motor I purchased from Autodoc was a reconditioned unit, from Ukraine (doubtless before the Russians started bombing them), but whatever it seems like a really great upgrade.
Someone has also mentioned the earthing strap on the starter motor retaining bolts: mine had two straps, one each side of the longer/larger centre bolt. This was a tad difficult to tighten and keep at a sensible angle but not insurmountable, just annoying.
No trouble with knock sensor bolts all came out easily, no heating or penetrating fluid required, as did the inlet manifold screws, although one was a bit tight and I replaced it with a new one, as the allen key drive was a bit damaged. I did not replace the screws with stainless steel torx head, as I couldn't locate a suitable replacement, and stainless screws are not magnetic so locating them, and removal would be inconvenient without the use of the magnet on a stick.
Incidentally, whilst I had the inlet manifold off, I managed to replace both A/C lines, one had gone porous, and was sweating air conditioning gas/fluid. This job is to be avoided if possible, it takes significant patience, and the car in the air to get at the fire wall and compressor/reciever dryer connections. Having said that it is possible, something I doubted, and was advised by the local air conditioning shop that they would have to remake the lines and re route around the front of the car: at vast expense. So all good, 'Mario' the Maserati back on the road!
Lastly, the manual alluded to some plenum cover plate and associated gasket: my car had neither. Once the inlet manifold was removed you were into the valley??

Good Job done there.

 

[vulcan1208]

Just finishing changing out the starter motor on my 3200GT. Quite frankly the manual is rubbish! The sequence of actions is wrong on many of the steps, and several pipes and connections do not have to be disconnected. I will do a step by step post soonest but basically,
a. the first step (not mentioned) is drain coolant; isolate battery (mentioned);
b. disconnect throttle body hoses
c. then follow the steps in the manual to disconnect the injector electrical connections, and loosen the bolts holding the inlet manifold to the block;
d. lift inlet manifold, fuel rails, and tag and disconnect the vaccum lines that are preventing you lifting the manifold off the engine, self evident, BLOCK the holes in the engine now revealed to prevent anything going into the combustion chambers
e. unbolt the water manifold from the block, again tagging and marking the hoses to allow removal from the engine;
f. now you can unbolt the starter motor, earths, and electrical connections;
g. clean the valley - it is full of broken electrical wire spiral covers and generall grit;
h. replace knock sensors (as required), apparently a good thing to do now you have come this far;
i. clean everything else, with degreaser, rags and a wet and dry vaccum;
j. reassemble using new parts, gaskets, as required.

Is there a knack to lifting the manifold, mine seems to be stuck fast, are there any points where gentle leverage can be applied or would it be best to tap with a plastic mallet to see if it breaks the seal ?

 

[Chris Eggleton]

Is there a knack to lifting the manifold, mine seems to be stuck fast, are there any points where gentle leverage can be applied or would it be best to tap with a plastic mallet to see if it breaks the seal ?

G'day Vulcan, yes a quick tap with a soft mallet will break the seal on the o rings.

 

[vulcan1208]

Ok another question.....I have removed the water manifold in order to change all of the hoses and clean up the manifold outlets and want to replace the rectangular gasket that joins the manifold to the engine, has anyone replaced this, if so where could I get a replacement ?

 

[conaero]

Here you go, it’s an o ring now on supercession, in stock, £2.88

https://www.eurospares.co.uk/Parts/585411203/Maserati?pi=39433&_gl=1*13m7vgv*_up*MQ..&gclid=Cj0KCQjwrKu2BhDkARIsAD7GBot2dxp6bOIpd3PvqK-mLMEZhRLENeez6IU97-UiBdKWOWq5-C_lZxAaAjzXEALw_wcB&gbraid=0AAAAAD-GrzY37x0aohOI2dQt3jQWBAabf

 

[vulcan1208]

Great thanks, I've got to order the knock sensors so I'll get this at the same time.

 

[Lozzer]

 

[NickP]

Mike Roberts mentioned a mod for the knock sensors meaning you don't need to remove all this gubbings every time they go wrong, anyone done this at all? Apparently a big time saver...

 

[conaero]

Go very, very easy with the knock sensors. I broke one changing the starter then the retaining bolt sheered off in the block and had to be drilled out…spanner’s thrown, off into the car park, mutterings and booting things.

 

[davy83]

Mike Roberts mentioned a mod for the knock sensors meaning you don't need to remove all this gubbings every time they go wrong, anyone done this at all? Apparently a big time saver...

There are a number of garages including Mike that are mounting these on the top of the rocker cover. It means replacement is dead easy. The only word of caution i would throw in here is these are used to allow the ECU to tune the fuel mixture and ignition advance/timing to get maximum power from the engine without pinking, or pre-ignition. The system may be crude and the difference between the sound of pinking at the cylinder head is just as good as the sound on the wall of the block. my feeling is that your systems ability to detect pinking will be impaired by this change, which might mean in some circumstances the engine could run with pinking going on which will damage the engine long term. Evidence suggests that the car will run fine with them mounted on the top like this, and I am also thinking of doign just this as my knock sensors are on the blink again, but there is a little nagging doubt for me. I did a bit of work in my ealry carreer on automotive engine controls including adaptive ignition and pre-ignition detection and my memory says they are quite sensitive.

 

[CatmanV2]

There are a number of garages including Mike that are mounting these on the top of the rocker cover. It means replacement is dead easy. The only word of caution i would throw in here is these are used to allow the ECU to tune the fuel mixture and ignition advance/timing to get maximum power from the engine without pinking, or pre-ignition. The system may be crude and the difference between the sound of pinking at the cylinder head is just as good as the sound on the wall of the block. my feeling is that your systems ability to detect pinking will be impaired by this change, which might mean in some circumstances the engine could run with pinking going on which will damage the engine long term. Evidence suggests that the car will run fine with them mounted on the top like this, and I am also thinking of doign just this as my knock sensors are on the blink again, but there is a little nagging doubt for me. I did a bit of work in my ealry carreer on automotive engine controls including adaptive ignition and pre-ignition detection and my memory says they are quite sensitive.

I'm no expert, but there's a few things that I wouldn't like to alter. Oil filters, knock sensors, that kind of thing can kill your engine in no time.

But if Mike says it's good, I would guess he knows his thing

C

 

[davy83]

I'm no expert, but there's a few things that I wouldn't like to alter. Oil filters, knock sensors, that kind of thing can kill your engine in no time.

But if Mike says it's good, I would guess he knows his thing

C

Yes Mike generally knows his thing, and several main garages are also mouting them on top and I guess no aparent issues.

 

[NickP]

Go very, very easy with the knock sensors. I broke one changing the starter then the retaining bolt sheered off in the block and had to be drilled out…spanner’s thrown, off into the car park, mutterings and booting things.

I snapped a bolt off on the water pump when I didn't check the torque..... The cat was lucky he wasn't around thats for sure! Had to get a nut welded on to the stub (thankfully there was enough left!)

 

[vulcan1208]

I have the inlet manifold, water manifold and all hoses off now and some gaskets are arriving from Eurospares tomorrow along with 2 knock sensors; whilst I can see one sensor the other seems to be under the starter. Having just read through some old receipts I have noticed I had the starter and sensors replaced at Giallos' around 17k miles ago and there are no error codes (stored or otherwise) added to which the starter spins like a top, is it worth removing the starter and changing the sensors ?

Just to brighten up the post I went to the national alfa day the other week at Bicester and at the entrance a photographer was taking pictures, my son purchased this one...it looks as good now as when I bought it in 2005, it just goes to show what £52k in bills and servicing can get you that said it still dumped me in the M25 roadworks on a boiling hot sunny day on the way home.

 

[philw696]

£52K wow