can somone economics 101 for me

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493
apparently we have a 50bn black hole that we are going to have to pay higher taxes to fill because of the mini budget right??

...but the budget was scrapped and never happened, why do we still have a hole?
 

safrane

Member
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16,866
There was a big hole before the budget.
The cost of paying that back went up when Truss made some 'silly' changes to get some votes.
So, we now have to pay more to fill the original hole and the hole gets bigger each month until we start filling it.
 

philw696

Member
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25,468
One Big Mess that's for sure.
PM's Questions today didn't inspire much confidence that's for sure.
 

Motorsport3

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883
apparently we have a 50bn black hole that we are going to have to pay higher taxes to fill because of the mini budget right??

...but the budget was scrapped and never happened, why do we still have a hole?

My understanding is that mini budget spooked the market and resulted in higher rates I.e. higher cost to service the gov debt.

The new government took back mini budget but market hasn't returned the rates to pre-mini budget levels. A kind of credibility (or lack of) charge.
 

Ewan

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6,812
The rate that the UK Govn has to pay to borrow money is what matters. Because of the ridiculous mini-budget, it now costs more to service the nations debt than it did a few months back. Just as is the case for people on tracker mortgages, for example.
So while reversing the mini-budget should help in time, right now we have to continue paying for the consequences of that disastrous day. People have gone to jail for far lesser crimes than that committed by Truss and Kwarteng.
Sorry - don’t want to turn this economics thread turn into a political one. But they are inextricably linked.
 

Devonboy

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1,291
The U.K. has always had a “black hole” as we have generally spent more than we have produced.
 

Felonious Crud

Administrator
Staff member
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21,184
The rate that the UK Govn has to pay to borrow money is what matters. Because of the ridiculous mini-budget, it now costs more to service the nations debt than it did a few months back. Just as is the case for people on tracker mortgages, for example.
So while reversing the mini-budget should help in time, right now we have to continue paying for the consequences of that disastrous day. People have gone to jail for far lesser crimes than that committed by Truss and Kwarteng.
Sorry - don’t want to turn this economics thread turn into a political one. But they are inextricably linked.
Regardless of the political angle, you're still correct.

Now we just need to avoid the 'my political facts are more factual than yours' silliness.
 

Devonboy

Member
Messages
1,291
The rate that the UK Govn has to pay to borrow money is what matters. Because of the ridiculous mini-budget, it now costs more to service the nations debt than it did a few months back. Just as is the case for people on tracker mortgages, for example.
So while reversing the mini-budget should help in time, right now we have to continue paying for the consequences of that disastrous day. People have gone to jail for far lesser crimes than that committed by Truss and Kwarteng.
Sorry - don’t want to turn this economics thread turn into a political one. But they are inextricably linked.

I am not sure it is quite that simple. The media likes causation....this did that....I am constantly amazed how a 50pt fall or rise on the Ftse 100 is confidently explained to the masses as being caused by one variable by the media. Anyone who has ever traded shares professionally knows it just ain't that simple. Long before this Govt, the UK relied on foreign capital to finance its balance of payments deficit (the overdraft) and this has been simple as there was loads of cash swilling around, much of it freshly printed or forced lenders such as the Central Banks and pension funds who have been ready to buy our Bonds (Gilts). Much of what is happening, was already in play before the mini-budget. Whilst the mini-budget provided a great catalyst for traders and headlines for the media, as you note, it's been reversed. Unfortunately, the structure of the UK economy and its balance of payments deficit has not and therefore the trend of higher interest rates to attract capital to finance the overdraft will persist. As for the black hole, it will continue to grow as we spend more than we produce.
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,789
I am not sure it is quite that simple. The media likes causation....this did that....I am constantly amazed how a 50pt fall or rise on the Ftse 100 is confidently explained to the masses as being caused by one variable by the media. Anyone who has ever traded shares professionally knows it just ain't that simple. Long before this Govt, the UK relied on foreign capital to finance its balance of payments deficit (the overdraft) and this has been simple as there was loads of cash swilling around, much of it freshly printed or forced lenders such as the Central Banks and pension funds who have been ready to buy our Bonds (Gilts). Much of what is happening, was already in play before the mini-budget. Whilst the mini-budget provided a great catalyst for traders and headlines for the media, as you note, it's been reversed. Unfortunately, the structure of the UK economy and its balance of payments deficit has not and therefore the trend of higher interest rates to attract capital to finance the overdraft will persist. As for the black hole, it will continue to grow as we spend more than we produce.

Oh do we have to accept that things are complicated and it's not just the governments fault? It's so much simpler the other way ;)

C