Business advice

[Scaf]

Clearly.

Some people's businesses are their pension and future. If it disappears grant or no grant, paid back or not they have nothing. Some maybe less than nothing. They might be middle aged or old and will need to start from square one or less. It isn't going to be easy for some for sure.

I think I must live on a different planet sometimes. I am just a simple man and many of these issues and fixes are often due to increased complexity that I just don't understand.

How is a rates grant going to help someone find £100k to pay bills at the end of the month? It won't only revenues will....which have stopped....you can only reduce costs down to a certain level.

I'm not sure some businesses were that profitable and have substantial cash reserves to get passed to the first month or two let alone further ahead. What they are left with after this is also a worry for many.

I'm possibly just starting to feel we are doing more damage than good in some aspects.

The rates is not a grant - it’s a free pass for the businesses that are eligible you don’t have to pay it back.

 

[rockits]

I thought it was a grant as I understood it and a grant by definition is something you don't have to pay or do I have that wrong?

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...-22-billion-grants-and-business-rates-package

Is this different to the one others have been claiming for commercial non-retail premises? Is there another one for that?

 

[rockits]

I think this is different and what is being claimed:

https://www.businesssupport.gov.uk/small-business-grant-funding/

 

[ScaldedCat]

There are a lot of growers doing everything possible to move plants, as are we. The sheer volume is the issue. We have vans and lorry loads going out every day during normal trading and currently have 600k on the ground needing to be sold in the next 3 months. Another larger nursery has 7 million young plants that should be outloaded over the same period and there are many others of a similar size all in the same position. The waste of resources will be shocking when it has to be binned.
There is huge demand but without those big outlets there is only so much that can be moved online/home deliveries etc. The diy/supermarkets all take many artic loads daily and the distribution network works well on this scale in normal trading.
Even though I'm in this industry I still wonder where it all goes year after year! But sell it does......usually.

 

[cheshiremaserati]

I recognised this plight a few days ago, thousands of private nurseries with stock which they cant shift. ( and many with no online shop to do so) I'm not sure how to help but what I have done is written personally to Peter Jones (of Dragons Den fame) asking him to look at the opportunity of setting up a central online portal through which lots of private nurseries could use to sell their plants direct to the public, so long as their is a distribution network to ship the plants. Given there is a lock down and therefore a captive market for buyers of plants at this time of year, there must be a way of selling direct to the public, it just needs to be figured out how to do it and quickly. Which is why I have raised it with Peter Jones because he will have access to other entrepreneurs who might be better placed to help out. I dont know if this approach will gain any traction but it has to be worth a try.

Dragon's Den is good lateral thinking to trying to gain traction. But these guys want the proposer to share much of the risk. This is high risk investment for them. But it might appeal to a philanthropic side (if they have it).

 

[rockits]

I'm not sure it will be high risk and in reality no risk I would have thought. The nursery just wants some contacts to shift a shedload of plants quickly. I'm sure they would offer a healthy sales commission on sales. No investment needed. Just some reward for a bit of time and some key contacts to be able offload volume quickly.

 

[DavidL]

I think this is different and what is being claimed:

https://www.businesssupport.gov.uk/small-business-grant-funding/

For the high st business rates have pretty much been scrapped after this year's budget. On top of that there are retail, leisure and hospitality grants. These range from £10k for those who claim small business rates relief which means they have a rateable value of less than £15k, up to £25k for those with a rateable value of £25-£51k. These aren't loans.
The grants are starting to come through now.
There is then furlough but who knows when that will start to pay up. I have heard I could be November!

 

[Rees2301]

For the high st business rates have pretty much been scrapped after this year's budget. On top of that there are retail, leisure and hospitality grants. These range from £10k for those who claim small business rates relief which means they have a rateable value of less than £15k, up to £25k for those with a rateable value of £25-£51k. These aren't loans.
The grants are starting to come through now.
There is then furlough but who knows when that will start to pay up. I have heard I could be November!

Can't believe the furlough money wont come through til November. Dont think many businesses have funds to cover 80% wage bill til then without further major support, and I don't mean loan support that that we have no income coming in to cover. Too many businesses would pull the plug if it took that long. I know it all depends on how long this continues but once we've covered our end of April payroll we'd have some tuf decisions to make if there's no guaranteed date for reimbursement.

 

[Wattie]

What a great summary! Spot on.
Now I'm no economist but this all said my brother ( who was ) was telling me yesterday that increasingly countries are moving towards the "Modern Monetary Theory", which allows countries to literally print money at infinitum and target this into specifc areas to provide stimulus to their economies ( without driving up inflation) . If all countries do this in unison, then the subsequent devaluation of their currencies won't matter. But it's a way of injecting huge amounts of money into a countries economy, with no pay back. Perhaps this is where our Chancellor's head is?
Like I said I am no expert other than looking it up on google but apparently more and more of the big economies are talking about this approach to avoid bankrupting countries who are having to intervene with massive financial intervention packages.

MMT eh.

Interesting isn't it, because the OMT (old monetary theory) was perfectly good as long as countries, corporations and individuals lived within their means. Unfortunately, under the encouragement from bankers and politicians who thought it prudent to issue debt on a massive scale (pays the bonuses and gets you elected doesn't it) we're now fecked.

The solution, MMT simply says lets add more and more debt to that (together, collectively, globally) and we'll all be fine.

WMT (Watties monetary theory) says this is total bo11ocks. Those in charge are clearly making this up as they go along....this is just another lets shift the blame, lets move the goalposts and try this -it might work ( load of sh1t).

Under Mmt, forget telling kids to be prudent with money. No point, it'll be worthless as those responsible for ensuring inflation remains in check will have fecked it again.

Just, like they did the last 10 years for example, which has just gone boom.

Tomorrow’s solution should not in any shape or form involve those responsible for today’s debacle.

 

[Silvercat]

MMT eh.

Interesting isn't it, because the OMT (old monetary theory) was perfectly good as long as countries, corporations and individuals lived within their means. Unfortunately, under the encouragement from bankers and politicians who thought it prudent to issue debt on a massive scale (pays the bonuses and gets you elected doesn't it) we're now fecked.

The solution, MMT simply says lets add more and more debt to that (together, collectively, globally) and we'll all be fine.

WMT (Watties monetary theory) says this is total bo11ocks. Those in charge are clearly making this up as they go along....this is just another lets shift the blame, lets move the goalposts and try this -it might work ( load of sh1t).

Under Mmt, forget telling kids to be prudent with money. No point, it'll be worthless as those responsible for ensuring inflation remains in check will have fecked it again.

Just, like they did the last 10 years for example, which has just gone boom.

Tomorrow’s solution should not in any shape or form involve those responsible for today’s debacle.

I agree...I prefer the more traditional approach which, on balance has served the world reasonably well for the last 70+ years.

 

[Marco07]

Morning all. I’ve been resisting furlough for my staff but think it’s now inevitable for some. The reason I’ve been hesitant? When this is over and they’re all back to work I am concerned that there will be resentment between those that were working their asses off to save the business and those effectively on paid leave (holiday). I reckon I’ll keep 30% working and furlough the rest.

And then what do I do about holiday entitlement? According to employment rights furlough enjoys the same accrued holiday entitlement. So if this goes on until July(?) then all my staff that have been furloughed could return to work and book their holiday during the very period when I’m trying to rebuild. And this after having 5 months paid leave. It’s gonna cause resentment.

 

[D Walker]

Morning all. I’ve been resisting furlough for my staff but think it’s now inevitable for some. The reason I’ve been hesitant? When this is over and they’re all back to work I am concerned that there will be resentment between those that were working their asses off to save the business and those effectively on paid leave (holiday). I reckon I’ll keep 30% working and furlough the rest.

And then what do I do about holiday entitlement? According to employment rights furlough enjoys the same accrued holiday entitlement. So if this goes on until July(?) then all my staff that have been furloughed could return to work and book their holiday during the very period when I’m trying to rebuild. And this after having 5 months paid leave. It’s gonna cause resentment.

I overheard something along these lines at work the other day....
The guys in the same team as me were sent home for 3 weeks initially..on full pay, not yet furloughed..Will be 2 weeks on Tuesday. A couple are coming back now we have rearranged the office to accommodate social distancing...but as you say, the others may be off for quite some time....I’m just glad to be out of the house, but I heard the, they are saving, not paying for fuel etc etc, while those at home no doubt will be concerned about their jobs going forward....

 

[allandwf]

A couple of the younger ones at my work brought this up. They seemed to think they were entitled to more as they were working while others sat at home on full pay! We down manned by about 60%.

 

[D Walker]

A couple of the younger ones at my work brought this up. They seemed to think they were entitled to more as they were working while others sat at home on full pay! We down manned by about 60%.

Beggars belief doesn’t it.....I’ve been doing shutdown completions last 2 weeks...one of the rotating techs refused to sign the sign off sheet for a lubrication routine, even though he did the work. Because he is not paid as a supervisor.( furloughed)....50p an hour difference, which I get over a year, but as I pointed out, when they are looking for a new supervisor, what do you remember.

 

[rockits]

I do agree many will have some tough decisions.

Is it possible to rotate staff on and off furlough to balance it across the workforce? That could level the issue somewhat.

Or maybe openly discuss the option to furlough or not as some may prefer it and some might not. They have decided for themselves then.

Also you could depending on finance offer some financial incentive or bonuses to those who come to work and do not furlough as a thank you.

Just some quick little ideas that may or may not help.

 

[DaveT]

Yes it is possible to rotate. 3 week minimum period of furlough in each case.

 

[rockits]

I guess it depends if the business and the staff roles can easily rotate on and off workably enough.

 

[cheshiremaserati]

I'm not sure it will be high risk and in reality no risk I would have thought. The nursery just wants some contacts to shift a shedload of plants quickly. I'm sure they would offer a healthy sales commission on sales. No investment needed. Just some reward for a bit of time and some key contacts to be able offload volume quickly.

The Den is made up of private investors. The model they work to is improve and sell-on at a profit. 7 out of 10 Venture Capital dabbling makes a loss. So those 3 that are profitable have to recover the cumulative losses of the 7 that failed. They are not into short-term stop-gap finance. Thats not how VC and PE investors work. They want a large chunk of equity in a business, they need the numbers to make sense and they need to see potential to make money. The example I read on this forum does not appear to tick the Den members boxes . But Pete Jones may come back and offer to step-in if it has been presented well and stands up to rigorous scrutiny.

 

[rockits]

I'm not sure the nurseries need investment or help with their business per se. I understand they just have short term issues in they have a load of stock they need to shift in the next 3 months with likely normally customers and channels not operating.

 

[cheshiremaserati]

I'm not sure the nurseries need investment or help with their business per se. I understand they just have short term issues in they have a load of stock they need to shift in the next 3 months with likely normally customers and channels not operating.

I was replying oroginally to the poster who said he'd approach or had approached Pete Jones of Dragons Den for assistance with contacts. They ain't in the business of sharing contacts. I get approached to help Business Development firms - all they want is access to my huge network of global senior decision makers and budgetary authority leaders in my sector. My answer is always short and blunt.
Based on what you have stated above, VC and PE investors are the wrong segment. Seems it is customers that are needed to buy plants that are gonna die soon unless bought and planted into gardens. Dragons can't pull customers out of a hat and start logistics infrastructure for distribution.

This is a very tough trying time for SME's.
I see many will go down and struggle to recover. Very sad....