Are you worried yet.

[philw696]

Good points Bob.
Here in France we pay into a non profit making Mutual fund costs us as a couple a 100 Euro's a month on top of the taxes etc I pay and from being here nearly 18 months works well.
Time will tell after this pandemic.

 

[philw696]

Some Good News from Italy.

Italian engineers' brilliant 3-D printed hack turns scuba gear into ventilator masks

Well done!

www.upworthy.com

 

[Oneball]

Not a football fan but was reading on the BBC that Norwich City staff and players are phoning all 6000 of their over 60 season ticket holders for a chat in case they have no one to talk to.

 

[Scaf]

Yep. 46 doctors dead now in Italy and many nurses. They are better resourced than the UK per capita and 2x number of ITU beds. They aren’t showing the pictures in London at the moment. But they will come out in time I am sure of it. Did you see the nurses in bin bags recently?

I didn’t see the nurses in bin bags you refer to, but nothing surprises me.

 

[philw696]

 

[rockits]

I'd agree with most that obviously the NHS is underfunded.....or funded well but not efficient......either way in real terms the end result is lacking financially. With the resources it over achieves really which is a compliment to staff.

I would gladly pay more for a better NHS but don't feel if I did it would be well spent or run correclty. I think it needs to be rethought and reinvented. We need to pay more to the key people that will run it and then again all the way down the food chain.

I already pay extra with private family health care and to me it seems to offer generally a great experience and good VFM.

If you bear in mind many also pay for additional private healthcare thus aren't using NHS resources often then it makes the NHS even further portly funded. How would it cope if all the people currently paying and using private healthcare didn't....then used the NHS.

 

[lozcb]

I'd agree with most that obviously the NHS is underfunded.....or funded well but not efficient......either way in real terms the end result is lacking financially. With the resources it over achieves really which is a compliment to staff.

I would gladly pay more for a better NHS but don't feel if I did it would be well spent or run correclty. I think it needs to be rethought and reinvented. We need to pay more to the key people that will run it and then again all the way down the food chain.

I already pay extra with private family health care and to me it seems to offer generally a great experience and good VFM.

If you bear in mind many also pay for additional private healthcare thus aren't using NHS resources often then it makes the NHS even further portly funded. How would it cope if all the people currently paying and using private healthcare didn't....then used the NHS.

Agree with most of the above , but i have no personal experience other than 10 years ago i had a 3 day stay after dehydration took its toll, and my kidneys were about to pack up, stay was excellent and not a single (they could have done better from me ) what i have noticed over the years is the way the system has been abused , by both visiting tourists ( medical treatment tourists) who dont, or are not even asked to pay , and the phenominal number of non essential plastic surgery operations whether nose boob or weight reduction , and lets not even get on to the transgender issue ............................ In my view the NHS should be soley for essential physical well being of the body ............people that want to change there physical appearance claiming it affects their mental well being as an excuse to circumvent the system should be sent straight to private consultation at their own cost
Just then might the money and time saved been spent more efficiently elsewhere ,

 

[iainw]

Doctors are underpaid but the NHS as a whole is massively underfunded but always has been and always will be with the current structure. It is actually everyone’s fault though - not the government - as we essentially see it as a free good which influences how we interact with it, what we want from it and how we take from it. We do not spend enough of GDP on health largely because the free model is a failure. We need a mixed economy funding wise like many European countries where tax is used along with insurance products and small amounts of personal payment for access. We need to get away from targets and huge bureaucracy around capital projects with local Trusts having more autonomy but fundamentally the main problem is the method of funding and everything else stems from that failure.

Bob smashed it. The NHS was a great dream that a Welshman thought up when treatments were relatively cheap, health care staff were well respected and rewarded and the population was much smaller and less diverse. Now it’s unmanageable in so many ways. I was willing to work 1:2 Oncall as a junior doctor for a relatively low wage as long as I was greeted with a smile by patients, my white coat was washed and hung up every day and managers listened to clinicians thoughts. Nurses would work as long as they were respected and protected by their colleagues and the public. Now there is a sense of entitlement and lack of understanding from large sections of the public - from the jobless millennials on benefits to the semi retirement semi rich semi intelligent who should know better. Bobs right- mixed funding and pragmatic solutions is the way forward. I don’t agree with huge taxes for all. There should be more choice for healthcare , the same as there is for education, choice of home, clothing and cars... it’s a Vast oversimplification but a crisis such as these should change how we think about our essential services and the focus of society.

 

[Silvercat]

Unfortunately I don’t think you’re right. The original idea of the NHS was unaffordable in 1951 within the confines of the British tax system and is unaffordable now. Until the voting public is willing to pay more in tax or have less in other areas nothing will change.

On an equally un-positive note we had no new cases at work Monday to Thursday then a jump on Friday. I don’t know whether incubation period or what can explain that.

Didnt I say we would have to pay more taxes if we want a properly funded services?

 

[MarkMas]

Years of cuts haven't helped.
I was married to a senior staff nurse for 24 years and no not all its cracked up to be but it's the Staff of the NHS that keeps it going Politicians just bleed it dry.
Maybe after all this they will look at it differently.

I know there is a political narrative of 'years of cuts' and certainly people within the NHS have a strong impression that there is less and less money around, but the actual data says the opposite. Government spending on health has increased by 20% over the past 10 years and funding is NOT being 'cut'. What I think is happening is that demand is growing faster than resources and that feels like 'cuts'.

 

[daverichardson]

The NHS was founded in 1948 and was un affordable in its first year of operation.
As a nation we first need to decide what type of healthcare we want.
a) a private insurance based system similar to many countries
b) a 'free' service for all mainly unique to us
Personally I prefer the second option but agree 'free' is a nonsense and I am quite happy to pay a tax to fund it.
By default the NHS will remain in place and we will continue this debate.........................

 

[philw696]

Still some crazy fools about during lockdown

Woman on mobility scooter gets stuck on beach amid lockdown

She was stretchered off the beach by coastguards

www.somersetlive.co.uk

 

[bigbob]

Bob smashed it. The NHS was a great dream that a Welshman thought up when treatments were relatively cheap, health care staff were well respected and rewarded and the population was much smaller and less diverse. Now it’s unmanageable in so many ways. I was willing to work 1:2 Oncall as a junior doctor for a relatively low wage as long as I was greeted with a smile by patients, my white coat was washed and hung up every day and managers listened to clinicians thoughts. Nurses would work as long as they were respected and protected by their colleagues and the public. Now there is a sense of entitlement and lack of understanding from large sections of the public - from the jobless millennials on benefits to the semi retirement semi rich semi intelligent who should know better. Bobs right- mixed funding and pragmatic solutions is the way forward. I don’t agree with huge taxes for all. There should be more choice for healthcare , the same as there is for education, choice of home, clothing and cars... it’s a Vast oversimplification but a crisis such as these should change how we think about our essential services and the focus of society.

Yep we need change like paying £25 to see your GP but means tested with a low threshold - the NHS benefits the middle class too much.

I grew up watching the NHS how it used to be - my mother was a nurse and was in awe of her Consultant who bought Lewis Carroll’s childhood home, had a dismissive attitude and enjoyed priority parking at the door. They were actually all scared shitless of him. It is more egalitarian now and offers amazing care when we are most vulnerable. My wife was in ITU last year - I disappeared on here for a while - and my dad had a lengthy stay in ITU a couple of years earlier. Both are still with us due to the amazing care they received which was both expensive and free at the same time! These systems will be stretched beyond belief over the next quarter and respect to anyone working in them.

What we need to fix is the seemingly mundane, long term chronic conditions - make people pay a bit and help them help each other by various mechanisms but above all stop making the NHS a political football.

 

[iainw]

I know there is a political narrative of 'years of cuts' and certainly people within the NHS have a strong impression that there is less and less money around, but the actual data says the opposite. Government spending on health has increased by 20% over the past 10 years and funding is NOT being 'cut'. What I think is happening is that demand is growing faster than resources and that feels like 'cuts'.

View attachment 67587

I agree. I don’t think this government are any better or worse than anyone before. It’s easy to blame everything on ‘the Tories’ or Boris - but it’s society to blame.

 

[safrane]

Largest impact on the NHS is old age. Yes we can keep people alive for far longer than 50/100 years ago... but it comes with huge medical and social care cost.

Far too many elderly end up in a hospital bed as the LAs can't find a bed in the community and when they do there is a huge cost associated with it... Then you have some families who don't want to take care of their Gran etc and of course want the state to pay for it and keep the inheritance.

Add to this the vast sums demanded for some specialist drugs and the funding soon whittles away.

 

[Wack61]

The NHS really needs to look at who is allowed to supply and at what cost , you don't need to be approved to supply admin equipment

View attachment 67581

I saw something about the big american cruise lines going cap in hand to the US government , somebody pointed out they're all registered outside of the US , presumably to pay less tax

This needs to stop worldwide , if you sell in that country you pay taxes on that revenue in that country

 

[lozcb]

Largest impact on the NHS is old age. Yes we can keep people alive for far longer than 50/100 years ago... but it comes with huge medical and social care cost.

Far too many elderly end up in a hospital bed as the LAs can't find a bed in the community and when they do there is a huge cost associated with it... Then you have some families who don't want to take care of their Gran etc and of course want the state to pay for it and keep the inheritance.

Add to this the vast sums demanded for some specialist drugs and the funding soon whittles away.

Add to this the vast sums demanded for some specialist drugs and the funding soon whittles away. ( thats a whole another topic in itself Peter,) what we let the big Pharma's get away with is almost criminal in my view and im further away than most from being a lefty , medical reseach should be nationlised , and possibly the manufacture of drugs put out to contract , but the patent should always remain with the country .......exploiting the sick for a profit , exploiting the people for basic needs ie water gas electic needs to stop, rail post coal iron british aerospace are not essentials and could stay privatised

Once we are out of this nightmare we would be well placed to implement such a more socially responsible attitude. Things will never return completely as they were before . If we internationally agree to to make China CCCP suffer for foisting this upon us by drastically and immediately reducing our dependency on Chinese imports . Its been a wake up call and most countries now are of the same mindset to return to self manufacturing , rather than eveything based purely on cheapest price.

 

[philw696]

Coronavirus deaths in UK soar past 1,000 after biggest 24-hour jump

A further 260 people have died in the biggest 24 hour jump in the UK.

metro.co.uk

 

[rockits]

.........the NHS benefits the middle class too much.

I'm not sure that is the case though in the main is it? It seems to benefit the elderly and the undesirables in society in the main more than anyone else I would suggest.

A percentage of the middle class pay for additional private healthcare or if they don't are paying a fair amount of tax and enough into the system to justify their use. I regard myself as upper working class and still pay maybe £300+ per month for additional private healthcare.

The issue is the same as any company that is that big and employs the amount of staff they do. Inefficiencies start to overtake the economies of scale gained. The NHS was/is Europe's largest employer. Companies and employers of this size are just too big and unwieldy and not to be broken up into smaller intetities. They can still benefit from group economies of scale.

I have no idea what the trust's were/are there to achieve but clearly much is working and much isn't. Sometimes you cannot tweak or change an existing infrastructure. Or you try but with massive compromises Sometimes you need to start again from scratch and rethink the whole shooting match from the ground up.

 

[lozcb]

Add to this the vast sums demanded for some specialist drugs and the funding soon whittles away. ( thats a whole another topic in itself Peter,) what we let the big Pharma's get away with is almost criminal in my view and im further away than most from being a lefty , medical reseach should be nationlised , and possibly the manufacture of drugs put out to contract , but the patent should always remain with the country .......exploiting the sick for a profit , exploiting the people for basic needs ie water gas electic needs to stop, rail post coal iron british aerospace are not essentials and could stay privatised

Once we are out of this nightmare we would be well placed to implement such a more socially responsible attitude. Things will never return completely as they were before . If we internationally agree to to make China CCCP suffer for foisting this upon us by drastically and immediately reducing our dependency on Chinese imports . Its been a wake up call and most countries now are of the same mindset to return to self manufacturing , rather than eveything based purely on cheapest price.

I will also be extemely disappointed with Boris ( who i might add I support all his efforts thus far) what i expect and want to see once we are out of this is to see 180 degree turn around on the Huwai contract , and a 180 degree turn around on the HS2project