Anyone had the jab yet?

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todd.the.submariner

todd.the.submariner

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Wattie said:
Here’s some more “Illusory Superiority” for you.

Scott Morrison Australian Prime Minister 15 March 2020
(Full speech below)

“The facts and the science, the medical advice will continue to drive and support the decisions that we are making as a National Cabinet, as indeed as a federal Cabinet at the Commonwealth level. But the truth is that while many people will contract this virus that it’s clear, just as people get the flu each year, it is a more severe condition than the flu, but for the vast majority, as I said last week, for the majority, around 8 in 10 is our advice, it will be a mild illness and it will pass. However, for older Australians and those that are more vulnerable, particularly those in remote communities and those with pre-existing health conditions, it is a far more serious virus, and that is our concern. Our aim in all of this is to protect the most vulnerable. The most at risk”

So in a year they took an anticipated 2 out of 10 problem (it’s actually around .3 given current global death rates) and turned it into a 10/10 everybody problem.

The facts and the science have been ignored by the very people who said they would be followed.

Click to expand...

Agreeing by talking past each other.
To protect the few in danger is the goal. The disagreement is on the method. The most effective method is mass vaccination. 75% or so to achieve herd immunity by reducing R0 sufficiently close to zero.

One other minor point, that is only minor if you’re not affected. Please refrain from using death as the only unpleasant outcome to be measured. That’s a tiny sliver of those significantly affected. Point of fact, Mrs Submariner( healthy, low risk age group) has essentially had covid for the past 14 months straight. She’s not dead, but often wishes it.

Others end up intubated for weeks, or otherwise significantly harmed. None of this shows up on the death stats, and the risks seem oddly distributed based on the variant.

A simple solution, unfortunately, is not at hand. Otherwise, we would be enacting it.

Biology is complex, and the model that “the old and infirm are the high risk group, just vaccinate them and we are golden” doesn’t hold up.



——-\|/——-
2004 CC “Siluro” the Italian Torpedo
2011 Audi A4 “mafia mobile”
 
Wattie

Wattie

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todd.the.submariner said:
Agreeing by talking past each other.
To protect the few in danger is the goal. The disagreement is on the method. The most effective method is mass vaccination. 75% or so to achieve herd immunity by reducing R0 sufficiently close to zero.

One other minor point, that is only minor if you’re not affected. Please refrain from using death as the only unpleasant outcome to be measured. That’s a tiny sliver of those significantly affected. Point of fact, Mrs Submariner( healthy, low risk age group) has essentially had covid for the past 14 months straight. She’s not dead, but often wishes it.

Others end up intubated for weeks, or otherwise significantly harmed. None of this shows up on the death stats, and the risks seem oddly distributed based on the variant.

A simple solution, unfortunately, is not at hand. Otherwise, we would be enacting it.

Biology is complex, and the model that “the old and infirm are the high risk group, just vaccinate them and we are golden” doesn’t hold up.



——-\|/——-
2004 CC “Siluro” the Italian Torpedo
2011 Audi A4 “mafia mobile”
Click to expand...
I’m sorry to hear about your other half- She’s been very unlucky. I hope she begins to feel better soon.
 
Swedish Paul

Swedish Paul

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Wattie said:
I’m well aware of the theory of vaccinating everyone. The misconception is everyone needs it.

Fact is.
1.You cannot vaccinate your way out of this.
There are too many people that you’d need to get around.....almost 8billion.
Even today they are suggesting boosters to deal with new strains.

What evidence is there these mutations are more deadly?

2 The problem is the pandemic has been redefined from “deaths” to “infections”.
This is ridiculous.

There is no requirement to vaccinate those not at risk. There is a far greater requirement to vaccinate those that are and keep them safe....with boosters if reqd.

So I’m not coming around to the suggestion that we all need it.

At the moment we don’t all need it and the “let’s all do our bit ” is actually stretching the available limited resources and vaccines away from those currently at risk.

The facts back this up, not the fear mongering.
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If you cannot vaccinate your way out of this, how come this is what the UK amongst other countries are actually doing? Or are we being hoodwinked? Of course it’s not the only factor, but it is significant. When we go from thousands dying each day to zero, surely that vindicates that vaccinations are working.
 
Wattie

Wattie

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Swedish Paul said:
If you cannot vaccinate your way out of this, how come this is what the UK amongst other countries are actually doing? Or are we being hoodwinked? Of course it’s not the only factor, but it is significant. When we go from thousands dying each day to zero, surely that vindicates that vaccinations are working.
Click to expand...
I didn’t say the vaccines weren’t working.....I said there’s a lot of evidence to suggest that not everyone requires them......look at what Scott Morrison said.

There is now increasing pressure, at the expense of freedom, for all to be vaccinated. Look at the “emergency approval” etc drug co’s are getting for kids. (Prof Harnden https://www.sportsmaserati.com/index.php?threads/are-you-worried-yet.30503/post-859207)
This requirement isn’t backed up by the data which shows the vast majority of healthy humans (especially children!!!) will survive this without vaccination.

here’s an example-

‘Greatest vulnerability’: Call for mandatory COVID-19 vaccine jab for returned travellers
Experts say every returned traveller who lands in Australia should be vaccinated against coronavirus as a condition of entry into the country’s troubled hotel quarantine system.
https://apple.news/AjIDGad6hSAaIJghczlqk1w

“Experts” - given that we know it takes the vaccines weeks to kick in and even then a second dose (of most) is required can u explain to me how this will stop infection in returned quarantined travelers?

it’s total BS. They’ve redifined the pandemic from deaths to “zero infection” rates and theyre taking your liberty and choice away in the process.
 
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Tallman

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So it seems current policies are all or at least mostly “total BS” according to some. Given that we currently have a rather large problem and a proposed solution, our options are as follows:
  1. Follow the proposed solution
  2. Do not follow the proposed solution, i.e. do nothing
  3. Propose an alternative solution

    so maybe the BS shouters can let us know what they would like to see, which is either do nothing or propose an alternative solution, of course backed up by proof as that seems to be the requirement for the current solution
 
Wattie

Wattie

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Tallman said:
So it seems current policies are all or at least mostly “total BS” according to some. Given that we currently have a rather large problem and a proposed solution, our options are as follows:
  1. Follow the proposed solution
  2. Do not follow the proposed solution, i.e. do nothing
  3. Propose an alternative solution

    so maybe the BS shouters can let us know what they would like to see, which is either do nothing or propose an alternative solution, of course backed up by proof as that seems to be the requirement for the current solution
Click to expand...
#674
 
zagatoes30

zagatoes30

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MarkMas said:
:) NHS
:) CDC
:) WHO
:) just about everywhere else of any repute
:mad: media scare stories
:eek: dodgy YouTube videos
o_O conspiracy websites
:rolleyes: a vague feeling that if the government wants you to do something it must be a scam
:whistle: advice from random strangers on car forums.
Click to expand...

Love lists, I always start at the bottom and only look at about 5 items and then decide - feck it I'm off to get stabbed today
 
Tallman

Tallman

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Wattie said:
#674
Click to expand...
#674 is a complaint against the current solution, kindly indicate your alternative solution backed by proof or your preference to do nothing...I don’t see any other logical options open (to you) at this stage...and it easy to just shoot holes in the current proposed solution, just like there will always be global warming deniers every time there is a bit of a cold spell
 
Wattie

Wattie

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Tallman said:
#674 is a complaint against the current solution, kindly indicate your alternative solution backed by proof or your preference to do nothing...I don’t see any other logical options open (to you) at this stage...and it easy to just shoot holes in the current proposed solution, just like there will always be global warming deniers every time there is a bit of a cold spell
Click to expand...
It’s a complaint alright.
Proof, look at the NHS table.
Ok as stated before I will not be following the current solution. There’s absolutely no need to do so given the current circumstances.
 
MarkMas

MarkMas

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Wattie said:
It’s quite funny really.
Have u read your posts from a year or so ago.
You and I have flipped positions.
Look at this
.....
Click to expand...

There is something in what you say about our positions having flipped. I'm not going to go back through the endless posts to check, but yes, my recollection is that you started out stockpiling food and predicting the end of civilisation as we know it, and I started out being optimistic that this was just a scare and wouldn't be too serious.

After seeing what actually happened, with millions dead and many times that number with health consequences, despite strenuous mitigation attempts in most of the world, I changed my position in the face of this evidence, to being quite concerned, and very grateful that excellent vaccines have become available about a year earlier than most forecasts.

In the face of this same evidence, you seem to have taken the view that only 'other people' have been affected by this minor irritant, and they can now take what you seem to view as a vaccination gamble, if they want to be protected from the population at large, as they go back to having fun and mining gold.

For the record, I have not changed my position from a about 15 months ago, however, on many issues, as your reminder shows:
  • 14 day quarantine - right then, and still right now
  • Temp testing - right then, and still right now
  • Self isolation - right then, and still right now
  • Continued travel through airports - right then, and still right now (although some travel restrictions between disparate infection-rate areas seems prudent)
  • Tracing those discovered to be infected - right then, and still right now
  • Lock down borders - wrong then and still wrong (I thought then, and continue to think now think that national lockdowns provide only temporary security - at considerable cost - but are not sustainable for most nations without global eradication or local vaccination, neither of which looked imminent in February 2021)
I have also pretty consistently held the views that:
  • scaremongering is bad
  • most internet sources are unreliable
  • manipulating sources, data and comments to suit your position is a bad thing
  • governments are flawed but many of them generally try to do good thing
  • hindsight is not a good basis for judging past actions in a complex and novel situation
  • insulting forum members, or endlessly repeating nonsense should be tolerated for a bit, but then followed by a ban when incorrigible
 
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Tallman

Tallman

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Spoke to a Biokineticist this morning who got the Johnson&Johnson jab, she felt a bit of a headache, chills, nausea which apparently goes away after one or two days. Others that had the same jab with her didn't have any side effects, so varies from person to person. Here the plan is to give Pfizer to people in Metropolitan areas and J&J to the rural areas. But it'll be a while.....
 
Wanderer

Wanderer

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What struck me in the UK in general after being EU-based lately is the number of people with walking sticks or electric chairs. For jab today at about half the queue had walking sticks.
 
Harry

Harry

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I just booked my second jab for tomorrow, 9 weeks after the first one. The UK Government is suggesting over 50’s get their second jab as soon as possible, allowing for at least a 8 week gap. So I went on t’internet and did it on the NHS site. Before there is an almighty rush.
 
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