Another 3200 Won't start and "where does this go?"

[RSM Masser]

My turn now to post on this subject, (will all 4200 owners please stop laughing) Having just completed the knock sensor replacement - manifold off twice due to a water leak, the car started on the button and ran perfectly both times.
After removing the manifold again - replacing the leaking rad pipe, once again on restart, after a couple of spins (to repressurise the fuel lines) it fired and settled into a steady beat.
Whilst checking for any leaks and bleeding all the air (it appears the heater matrix is where it gets stuck) the engine just stopped. Thinking I had knocked something off a cursorycheck revealed nothing untoward I turned the key again and it fired up no problem. Dismmissing this as 'one of those things' I left it running for ages to check all the hoses etc, turned everything off and isolated the battery put my feet up and had several well deserved beers.
The next day we played musical cars to swap them around so it could go off for its MoT, the V8's steady burble compared to the rattly old tappets on a 1966 Sunbeam Tiger running on 3 cylinders (not always the same 3 either!)
Tuesday dawns - thinking I had locked the car pressing the keybutton an opening the doors sets off the alarm (incidentaly it never sounds just flashes the indicators and hazard lights), shut door, lock and unlock problem solved. Off to local garage no problem.
3pm - the manager who is a friend calls me, "The Maz wont start - spins over lovely coughed twice and now nothing"

After much head scratching when I get there and reading ALL the previous posts (there are a few) I concur that either the cam sensor or TDC sensor is at fault, I have neither on me of course but hope I can bodge a fix to get the beast home.
A neat trick with the vacuum hose from the cam sensor in mouth and she fires up and runs!!!.........for 3 minutes and stops - now nothing.

Questions are - where should the cam sensor pipe go? despite taking photos - i forgot about this I am sure it went on the nipple under the cover to the throttle body, despite the nipple facing the other way?
Does it matter which nipple the 3 (YES 3) vacuum pipes are connected to at the rear of the manifold?
Where does the the spare one at the front go? - I cannot find any where it may have come from and I dont recall disconnecting it.



This was taken not long after I bought the beast - when it was running like a dream



This was taken yesterday - where does the pipe go? when you blow down it it does not seem to have much resistance - i cant see what it connects to after the 'T' piece it just disappears down the side of the block

Incidentally after 8 hours its back on the drive courtesy of the RAC recovery (available with my bank account) 3 hour wait for a bloke in a van to say "it wont start mate" brilliant, followed by another 3 hour wait for the biggest flat bed truck you have seen to turn up - when it gets to my house the driver is not sure he can get the truck on the drive! - needless to say a cup of tea and some biscuits all is well.

 

[allandwf]

On mine which runs well, I've just had a look, and the rear pipe is connected to the left as ures is, but the other end is open on mine. Don't seem to have the other pipe on mine.
The two round silver things are commoned up to a single pipe.

 

[swmillar]

that pipe goes on to your boost controller.... wont have an impact on the car starting though...(its the little box that the pipe in the picture above is connected to)

 

[conaero]

Right, the bits I do know/can remember.

The pipe in the second pic (upper) comes from the Peirburg valve and vents to air and is usually poked under the cover plate on top of the throttle body, so if that is connected to a plenum fixing it is wrong.

The lower pipe, I suggest you plug it into the nipple that is now spare from above.

 

[RSM Masser]

Right, the bits I do know/can remember.

The pipe in the second pic (upper) comes from the Peirburg valve and vents to air and is usually poked under the cover plate on top of the throttle body, so if that is connected to a plenum fixing it is wrong.

The lower pipe, I suggest you plug it into the nipple that is now spare from above.

So the way its connected in the second photo is wrong?
The top pipe is connected to a little box just behind the oil breather pipe on the side of the camshaft - is this not the cam sensor? that should vents to air - it also has another vacuum pipe that is hidden under the inlet manifold, both ends had the crimped pipe clip so i left alone
The loose one resting on what i thought was the Pierburg valves (silver disc things) should go onto the vacated nipple under the cover plate

 

[Alecci]

I'll be back here once home from work and try to give some assistance.

 

[ledlights]

On my car, the pipes are as Conaero says. The top pipe vents to the atmosphere under the cover plate on the top of the throttle body, and the other goes to the port on the front of the inlet.

The ports at the bulkhead end of the inlet were listed in one of Alecci's recent threads.

Hope this helps,

Steve

 

[RSM Masser]

That certainly makes sense
The rear ports I am not as concerned about I had these marked
Still wont start though - new TDC sensor ordered at £14 - it can't be anything too serious as I drove it to the MoT centre. But she is Italian - we have an Italian architect at work and they make life so complicated and difficult

 

[RSM Masser]

All back as Matt suggested - still wont start - I have noticed the alarm when locking hazards flash once then a second time very quickly, on unlocking they flash 8 times!
I havent noticed this before, incidentaly I NEVER get an alarm sound not even a beep

 

[alfatwo]

Maybe your immobiliser circuit is telling your ECU to cut the Spark.hence the no start...
it's not rocket science, being of Italian manufacture makes no difference,all European cars makers use the same component supplier's

Dave

 

[MUC3200GT]

what I am wondering is ..why in the upper picture the engine bay is looking so wet ?

 

[RSM Masser]

what I am wondering is ..why in the upper picture the engine bay is looking so wet ?

I found a tin of 'Engine Detailer' in the garage - tried it on someone elses car first - liked the look - then did mine, when it dried after a few minutes it left everthing wet looking and shiny - bit like an eighties perm

 

[MUC3200GT]

the point is that in case some water was entering some connectors or ECUs this could be nasty... In principle connectors and ECU should be sealed but there are rumors that the Diva doesnt like a shower in the engine bay

 

[RSM Masser]

Point well taken - the 'engine detailer' spray was more of a silicone type, plus it was done aout 18months ago and no problems since. The second picture was taken much more recently (when it wouldnt start)

 

[MUC3200GT]

ah, ok.. however some years ago, in my first car I had (Golf II 55bhp) the connectors of the horns have been corroded away completely inside the connector, so that it was complained in the TUV (similar to MOT) ..so these are things that take some time .. its just an idea ...

and how does water get inside sealed conectors (this we had in our company): when temperature in the connector is at a certain level and than it starts raining the connector gets wet and the temperatur inside cools down creating a little vacuum.. thats the way water may get into sealed connectors..

 

[RSM Masser]

TDC Sensor replaced and vrooooom!!! Started on the first try.
Simple - but awkward (I had to release the 3 screws hiding the oil filler pipe, losing my 5mm Allen key socket in the process - NOT in the engine but stuck on a ledge somewhere around the alternator can't see it and can't feel it)
Off for MoT tomorrow after replacing the broken exhaust clamp bolt that I found on the floor. Another easy job but impossible at 8pm when the shops are shut.

 

[beau]

im sure this is what my intermittent starting issue is, mind you, its been fine for a long time... but seeing as the sensor is cheap i think im best replace it when i next get a chance

 

[hodroyd]

Might be a loose connection on the Crankcase sensor, worth a look..??

 

[RSM Masser]

It's all solid state at the crankshaft end and the three pin plastic clip at the other looked pretty robust. Other than a bit of road crud the new one looked identical.
Less than £20 delivered an hour to fit. Spoke to Matthew at Giallo he advised the sensor - common problem apparently

 

[hodroyd]

RSM, hope she flies through the test buddy..!!