4200 with Ferrari F430 Engine....

Fat Arnie

New Member
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428
Benny. its not guaranteed they will break if you have the odd venture yonder. If more frequent its just a matter of time. F=MA tells you that as you accelerate the reciprocating parts of an engine to higher speeds, the loads increase exponentially.

In practice this means the load on your engine internals at 9krpm are roughly double what they are at 8krpm.

A bit of research reveals the internals of the 4.2 V8 are no more exotic than say those in a 4 cyl Duratec from a Mondeo. Whilst it is an F136 derivative, it is no Ferrari engine.

But one thing worth noting Benny. I've built and rebuilt lots of proper race spec engines and thing is clear from my exploits - excessive RPM without the right bits kills engines. The F430 version of the F136 has h crank costing 4x that of a 4200. Because its forged to cope with 9krpm on a regular basis.. You can bet many other parts - rods, pistons, bearings, tappets, springs, retainers are all specially engineered from exotic materials to cope with the extra 1000rpm. If somone has removed the limiter function from your engine, its grossly irresponsible and it will end in tears. I would have it reinstated. If they cannot write it back into the map 300-400rpm higher than stock, then they certainly can't get more power from your engine on a properly mapped basis.
 

Fat Arnie

New Member
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428
That is a cast crank Zep. It even has numbers cast on the 3rd counterweight.

A forged steel crank has a much finer finish to all the unmachined faces. Numbers will be stamped, and the big ends will be centre bored.

Like this (which is the same piston & rod as in the previous picture!) :

DSCN0916.jpg
 

mjheathcote

Centenary Club
Messages
9,038
Arnie, what you have to remember is that Benny is waiting for his engine to explode to then carry out his new project.
Some will say, to complete his conversion, the 3200 Twin Turbo will be transplanted, but that is just in jest, I am sure bugger and better is planned...
 

Zep

Moderator
Messages
9,297
That is a cast crank Zep. It even has numbers cast on the 3rd counterweight.

A forged steel crank has a much finer finish to all the unmachined faces. Numbers will be stamped, and the big ends will be centre bored.

Like this (which is the same piston & rod as in the previous picture!) :

View attachment 39808

I don't disagree that the pixelation appears to be raised numbering but there are other clues, the shoulders of the crank webs are rounded, the parting line to my eye is diffused where as a cast part would have a very straight and obvious seem. The surface finish isn't particularly clear (I haven't found a high res picture of the crank) but not all forged cranks are finished to the degree of the one in your picture - these is still a degree of surface roughness out of the die. Centre boring big ends a lightening operation and by no means obligatory for a forged crank.

I have another pixelated pic from the workshop manual and the link to the Maserati spec for reference....

In the end I think there is only one way to find out, but I'm not doing that! :)


Crank2 copy.jpg

http://www1.maserati.com/maserati/q...-turismo/m-gransport-contemporaryclassic.html
 

Fat Arnie

New Member
Messages
428
DSC_5941.jpg

Here's an F430 one. They are 4 x the price of the 4200 crank and are still not particularly exotic. So I cannot see the 4200 one being billet.
 

Zep

Moderator
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9,297
Does seem unusual that the maser one would be so cheap! Seems to go against their spare parts ethos.... the fezza one is certainly better finished that is appears in the maser picture.

In theory the Maser and Ferrari cranks could be the same forging, just with an additional twist of the big ends when it was being hot sized after the flash was removed.

Only one way to be sure - although I think Matt might have a crank out of his spare engine to check...
 

Fat Arnie

New Member
Messages
428
I think you made a mistake :), Fezza one has a different part number. http://www.eurospares.co.uk/parts/f...e/crankshaft-conrods-and-pistons-36887/196460

Forged cranks are generally made in smaller batches hence cost is higher, but the machining effort and accuracy of dimensions, trueness and balance, not to mention the cost of billet EN40B makes even ones like the one in my pic (which is £3k and for a modest Vauxhall 16v) expensive.

Whilst there are more F430's than BTTC VX 16v engines in this world, the Ferrari Added Tax keeps the price high.

At £1300 the Maser one is without any doubt cast.


Interestingly the Eurospares catalogue has the Maserati 4200 and the Ferrari 430 cranks as the same, but obviously the 430 one is flat plane not cross plane as above... Incidentally the Maserati one is Around £1300 whereas the Ferrari one is £4300...

http://www.eurospares.co.uk/parts/m...e/crankshaft-conrods-and-pistons-20463/193169

www.eurospares.co.uk/parts/maserati...e/crankshaft-conrods-and-pistons-20463/193169