4200 dropping into N from 1 or R

Hart6

New Member
Messages
27
Hello all. I recently picked up an 03 4200 in a private sale with plenty of history. However, I've discovered an alarming fault already (typical!). On a couple of occasions following a motorway drive of 15-20 mins, when pulling up at the junction lights, the CC light has flickered a few times and the car gone from 1 straight into N. It's then gone straight into 1 on my asking, and continued normally for the rest of the journey.

However this morning, I had two issues. First, about 200m from the work car park following a long commute I took a sharp corner and the CC light flashed and the car didn't want to shift up out of third for a couple of seconds. I pulled up in the car park and it did the usual dropping into N out of 1, this time being reluctant to go back into first on asking (it didn't seem like it was attempting and failing, but rather refusing), and similarly when selecting reverse it wanted to go back into N. Took me about 30 seconds to reverse into my parking space because it kept leaving R or 1 and going into N, and then would go back into gear after a couple of requests. It doesn't feel like anything is slipping, and gear changes on the move seem perfect otherwise.

Now, the clutch according to the history has covered only about 7,000 miles. I have heard horror stories of them lasting only a short amount of time like that, but given that the average seems to be a fair bit higher, and nothing appears to be slipping, I'm going to guess that the clutch itself probably isn't at fault. I've done some reading of the forums and it sounds like this could be F1 pump related? Perhaps there's insufficient pressure and the car is dropping into N as a result? I'm hoping it's something like this and not the actuator, because I'd rather avoid the really big bills in my first few weeks of ownership!

Any ideas where to start?
 

safrane

Member
Messages
16,875
Couple of things to check.
Is the F1 fluid at the right level
Check the brake switch, door shut switch, and bonnet switch as they will all make the car drop into N if not closed correctly.

If not that it may be the clutch position sensor.
 

RoaryRati

Member
Messages
1,630
Welcome to the wonderful world of Maserati - we have faced similar, but not identical, issues. I'd run with @safrane's comment on F1 fluid, and clutch position sensor, but I'm sure those with more knowledge will chip in - we suffered bonnet lift and warning light coming on when doing 200kph down a German autobahn so I had to ease up, but the car kept motoring no problem.
 

Hart6

New Member
Messages
27
Thanks both! Will check the switches. I had read that the LEVEL light was supposed to come on if the F1 fluid was low - is this not the case?

The thing that seems odd is the way the light comes on only very briefly and there are no accompanying noises or messages. The longest I think I've seen the light come on for is about 5 seconds. Also feels like the issue must be related to the car being warm as it's never done it crawling about in traffic at the start of a journey.

Would it be worth investing in one of the LAUNCH scan tools - I understand a code should be thrown for the clutch position sensor?
 

safrane

Member
Messages
16,875
The light would also come on if pressure is low... you may have a lazy F1 pump, a leak or pressure switch issue.
 

Hart6

New Member
Messages
27
So I went out at lunch with no issues, and I went on my usual commute home this afternoon. Typically at the lights where it's done it a couple of times, the gear changes were flawless. Going to be one of those problems that's hard to replicate reliably I fear!

I've had a listen to working F1 pumps and mine does sound OK. It primes for 2-3 seconds or so when the door opens and has a healthy high pitched whirr to it. Not sure how people are establishing the intervals once running - it doesn't seem loud enough to tell?

Will be checking the various switches as soon as I can. I do have a door lock issue currently in that the car won't lock with the remote, and very often will immediately unlock itself after I try locking it with the key. Not sure if there's any chance of a relationship there.

Also I'm wondering if it's of any significance that the car was in storage for a couple of years now I think about it? It was garaged since 2021 until a month or so ago when it was taken for its MOT and has done around 200 miles since. It's covered less than 1000 miles in the last 6 years - indeed only 6000 miles in the last 10. Thinking perhaps there could be an internal leak caused by a perished seal or something? Or perhaps the F1 fluid is now old and not performing correctly when warm. It's so strange that it's very intermittent.

I am thinking of picking up a diagnostics tool given that the LAUNCH units seem to be the price of a few hours labour.
 

safrane

Member
Messages
16,875
Sorry, chipping in again.

All of the 4200 range now will be suffering from significant F1 pump and ancillary pipe degradation. My own GS had new high and low pressure pipes a couple of years ago as they were starting to perish 2006 car.

Be prepared for those to need attention no matter the milage.
 

Zep

Moderator
Messages
9,285
There are plenty of potential causes, you will need to read the codes to have even a clue where to start. Yes, the level light should come on with low fluid. If it goes into gear it’s unlikely to be the brake switch. Don’t fall into the trap of trying to guess, it’s painful!
 

philw696

Member
Messages
25,477
All Good advice so far and you can't go wrong with a Launch X431 Pros Mini if you can get connected to one for starters.
Condition of the Battery.
How old is it and is it the right specification ?
Get it tested properly by an Auto Electrician.
Good Luck.
 

PaulCambio

Member
Messages
485
My 4200 suffered a couple of major breakdowns with the EV pipes perishing and dumping the fluid. The problem started out with gear issues like you describe. Not a cheap fix but I was lucky enough to get a complete set from a US Ferrari (California to be specific) for around £300. Used, but the car had only covered 20k miles or there about, so when the second failure occurred I got the full set swapped out.

They are around £500 each new and there are 5 plus the pipe from the power unit which is around £350. The gearbox had to be removed to fit the whole set too.
 

Hart6

New Member
Messages
27
Thank you again for the input. I have an X431 on the way (It’s actually the cheaper CRP919E which from a fair chunk of research should do everything the Pros Mini does on our cars, but that hopefully is for another thread).

Have also ordered a brake light switch as they’re so cheap and prone to fail. Interestingly I have noted that 1-2 pumps of the brake pedal seem to get this problem sorted when it occurs, but that could just be placebo because it happens for such a short period.
 

Hart6

New Member
Messages
27
Small update - replaced the brake light switch Weds and have covered a couple of good sized journeys since, over which the light would normally come on at some point. Nothing yet, so there is still the chance that this turns out to be an incredibly cheap fix (I purchased the £11 Smart car part which seems to work perfectly), but I won't hold my breath. As a side note - what a pig the connection for the switch is!

Still awaiting the X431.
 

Lusso916

Junior Member
Messages
78
After a long journey my 4200 wont select revers, no beep, mirrors don't move to parking setting, leave 10 minuets and all's fine, all shorter journeys no problem.
I assume its heat related to electrical items.
 

Hart6

New Member
Messages
27
Another update - as suspected the brake switch didn’t fix the fault. Has returned a couple of times but without major trouble.

My Launch CRP919E arrived and has given me two codes:

P0720 Gearbox Output Revolutions
P1760 Brake Error (ha!)

I’m hoping the former might give a clue and the latter is something to do with when I switched the switches?

Also happily/sadly the CRP919E does read clutch wear, but mine is giving a slight negative value because the Self-Calibrated Closed Clutch Position is slightly lower than the New Closed Clutch Position. I’m assuming the info has been entered incorrectly at installation. Is there anything the absolute value of the New Closed Clutch Position can tell me? It was at 22.01.
 

Zep

Moderator
Messages
9,285
P0720 is related to the gearbox output shaft speed.

There are two speed sensors, input, which is the angular position sensor in the bell housing and the output sensor which is in the gearbox itself. I’d start with looking at the wiring.
 

Hart6

New Member
Messages
27
Great, thank you. Is it a Hall effect type thing? Assuming it's not genuinely picking up a mechanical problem, I wonder if it's failing in the way that crank sensors often do when warmed up.

I don't suppose you could point me in the direction of it on a diagram - is it part 43 here?
 

Hart6

New Member
Messages
27
Thanks. Yes I'm not going to be replacing it anytime soon but just needed to work out where it was to inspect. Looks like it might not really be accessible without dropping the box, but I wonder if the sensor end might be visible from underneath, and the harness end possibly through the boot.

I've cleared the codes and will be regularly checking to try isolate the CC light to that specific code. Not sure where to start with checking the live data unfortunately - especially with it being as intermittent as it is.
 

Zep

Moderator
Messages
9,285
You will be able to see it from below on the drivers side and trace the cable over the box back to the multi plug.