4200 clutch: difference between manual and CC (mechanical, friction)

Heinz Siebeking

New Member
Messages
14
Hi guys,
in a fit of madness, I thought I should buy a replacement clutch to have it relined ... and to have it in hands once my Spyder needs one. I ended up with two Valeo clutches, bought from some English gentleman, where according to him, one should be CC, one manual. He does not know which one is which. So, now I have the difficulty to find out: Which is CC, which is manual?
-> Question: Can anybody tell me the difference between the manual clutch (196021) and the CC clutch (196335 ) from visual inspection? I did not find a part number. The pressure plate, the body and the friction disk seem to be the same. Is there just a difference in the material the friction disk is made of?
Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Heinz

clutch 1:
clutch1a.JPGclutch1b.JPGclutch1c.JPG
clutch2:

clutch2a.JPGclutch2b.JPGclutch2c.JPG
 

Geo

Member
Messages
403
I was lead to believe they were one and the same, I'm sure some of the experts will let you know soon.
 

Heinz Siebeking

New Member
Messages
14
Hi Geo,
thank you. Well, I tried to find out from multiple pictures I googled ... It is like one of those picture puzzles: Do you see the difference? ;-)
Regards,
Heinz
 

Geo

Member
Messages
403
Heinz, apart from the holes drilled for balancing, I don't see anything obvious.
 

marios kriticos

SPONSOR: Autosheild
Messages
212
Guys
At one point they used to supply us with a different part number clutch for manual cars , they only do one clutch at the moment.
The important think is that the thrust bearing even though looks exactly the same it’s not , the internal seals are totally different so don’t fit a normal thirst bearing as you will have problems
 

mjheathcote

Centenary Club
Messages
7,009
Slightly off topic but has it ever been established if a later F1 Ferrari clutch can be fitted as a possible 'upgrade'. I'm sure this has been brought up before, not the relined 'kevlar' standard clutch that has been done, but, the owner soon appears to disappear by selling on soon afterwards...
 

whereskeith

Member
Messages
680
I thought with slight modification that the twin plate f430 clutch plate would fit ... can someone with better knowledge please confirm?
 

adam719

New Member
Messages
4
みなさん、こんにちは。

CCとMTのクラッチの違いは、クランクシャフトに接続されたスプライン部の高さが異なることである。

CCクラッチ
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Modena-Clutch-Kit-Kit-Clutch-Step-1-Maserati-4200-Coupe-F1-Cambiocorsa/121788495949?epid=16020060401&hash=item1c5b28f84d:g:xXsAAOSwl8NVb~ 5z

MTクラッチ
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Clutch-Kit-Kit-Clutch-Maserati-4200-Coupe-Spyder-CP-SP-Switch-196021/121788527190?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119 .m1438。l 2649
 

marios kriticos

SPONSOR: Autosheild
Messages
212
Spoke to Maserati this morning clutches fro manual cars are again available.
Part number manual clutch 196021 / £1220 + vat
Part number for Cambio Corsa 196335 / £998,82 + vat
 
Reactions: Geo

Heinz Siebeking

New Member
Messages
14
Thank you for asking, Marios. Thanks for the links, Adam. @mjheathcote, @whereskeith, sorry, cannot confirm or deny.
196021 versus 196335: On both, it says F810 DS, which is the friction material.

Does anybody know more about the difference between both clutches?
 

Corranga

Member
Messages
970
I don't know the difference,m but if it helps I can photograph the brand new manual clutch I bought last month (or is the number clear on the clutch, couldn't really tell from your photos)
 

Heinz Siebeking

New Member
Messages
14
Hi Corranga,
well, no, unfortunately, I did not find any part numbers. I do not know which one is the CC, and which is the manual.
Perhaps three photos of your brand new clutch will help:
- A photo of the friction disk might tell us more details about the material used (perhaps F810 DS is only a part of the whole specification).
- A photo from the side would help measure the thickness using the "rule of proportions". I tried with my own to clutches, and arrived at no clear result. It might be the same thickness for both. I could compare it to the 6.21 mm up to 6.34 mm stated by Craig elsewhere in the forum for the CC.
- And a third photo of the spring side just for completeness.
Perhaps I could find a feature this way that distiguishes one from the other.
Thus, photos are appreciated :)
Regards,
Siebeking
 

Corranga

Member
Messages
970
Cool, I'll try to remember to look it out tonight and get some photos up.

Definitely happy to help someone looking to have a clutch relined as I when I replace mine, I was planning to retain the original for potential relining and future use.
 

Nibby

Member
Messages
691
I was speaking to a chap with a manual Spyder like mine, he's was a 2002 model with only 20k miles and told me the clutch went at 15k just after he bought it, my car a 2003 has 67k miles (I bought it at 65k) and no mention of clutch replacement. This difference seems so vast even taking into account how the car might of been driven that it makes me wonder if they uprated it because of a problem.
 

Heinz Siebeking

New Member
Messages
14
@ Corranga, thank you very much! Let me see what I can find out ...
@Nibby, the first 4200 and Spyder (up to assembly number 9253) had a different clutch, which was replaced in these first cars upon first clutch change by the new designs. I do not know what was the reason for the change in design.
 

Nibby

Member
Messages
691
@ Corranga, thank you very much! Let me see what I can find out ...
@Nibby, the first 4200 and Spyder (up to assembly number 9253) had a different clutch, which was replaced in these first cars upon first clutch change by the new designs. I do not know what was the reason for the change in design.
Thanks Heinz for confirming that.
 

masertel

Centenary Club
Messages
85
Hi Heinz- I sent my manual gearbox 05 4200 clutch to Mad Dog Clutches to have it refurbished and up-rated as the thrust bearing had failed at 56000 miles. They specialise in Ferrari clutches and to date after 10000miles am very pleased with the work they did. To date I have changed 2 clutches on my cars (thankfully I have a lift) due to thrust bearing failure- one at 56000 miles and the other at 85000 miles. Both clutches had not worn out but considering the amount of labour to change the thrust bearing thought it wise to replace the clutch, flywheel and spigot bearing while I was in there. For peace of mind I recommend you replace all the the parts mentioned and if possible fit an uprated Hill Engineering thrust bearing as in the manual cars this appears to be the weak link. When done the clutch and associate parts should be good for 80000 miles provided you take at least 500 miles of in town driving and don't push the car to much while bedding in the clutch or dragging the pedal. I noticed in you pic of the used clutch the long black spring tags were quite worn where the thrust bearing makes contact on the tags and my understanding is they can also give problems and are prone to collapse with extended use especially on the F1 gearbox cars- with this in mind probably best to fit new parts or get the old clutch refurbished and uprated by MD Clutches at around £600. The other good thing about MD is they mated the clutch to the new flywheel (aprox £300) and made sure the combined unit was balanced so no issues with vibration after the install. Thankfully you do not need a SD2 computer to set up the clutch as in the CC cars- just good old fashioned mechanical skills so any decent mechanic should be able to complete the task without having to be held to ranson by a dealer with an SD2.

Please note that a refurbished clutch only seems to be suitable for the manual cars and is not recommended for the F1 CC gearbox as the new friction material messes with the F1 CC setup.

Will attempt to attached a few pics of the MD Clutch and thrust bearing. Hope this helps.

Terry
 

Attachments

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
32,518
Please note that a refurbished clutch only seems to be suitable for the manual cars and is not recommended for the F1 CC gearbox as the new friction material messes with the F1 CC setup.
I thought the holy grail had been found! Does this mean MD is no longer claiming success for CC 'upgrades'?

C