3200 Starting problem....

[Undefined]

Hi all,

Recently got a problem with my 2001 3200GT Automatic.... Really appreciate if you could help letting me know what's wrong.....

The problem is, when start (usually cold start, but appeared in hot start too) it got the following different scenarios randomly:
1) it just cannot be started, I ignited for even 5-7 seconds or even more, the starter motor is running, but no sign of the engine started.... then I stop...
2) it could "marginally" start, which gives me a feeling that it just run on some but not all cylinders.... the engine shakes, white smoke coming from the exhaust, a strong smell of unburned gas, sometimes can even see the rpm going up (can be up to 1500) and drop (to around 1000) even I didn't touch the pedal, the range of the unstable rpm could be different everytime.
3) sometimes, it could start perfectly.... even in cold start.

No CEL on, and when the car started smoothly, it runs just like normal...

I always turn to MAR position and wait for a while before start the engine. The outside temperature is around 15-17 degree celsius when the problem appeared...

After the problem appeared, I've taken my car to the mechanic to change engine oil/filter, cleaned air filter ('cos need to wait for a new one, so, what the mechanic could do was to clean it up a bit, he said that the filters are very dirty....), cleaned the butterfly valve. I've also tried to reset throttle using the method noted in the post: http://www.sportsmaserati.co.uk/showthread.php/207-3200-Throttle-RESET?highlight=3200+reset+throttle

But the problem still appear occasionally... most of the time were during cold start... but also experiences smooth cold start as well....

My mechanics told me that he didn't have such a problem in starting my car when my car was with him. He said that it could be the throttle body, which controlled by electronic motors... but the throttle body was renewed in July/2011 by the previous owner at the local dealer....

Thank you very much!

Best regards,
Michael.

 

[cobratwin]

With scenario 2 does the engine cut out and die or does it continue to run like a bag of old bolts?
it could be the knock or crank sensor that is packing in,

 

[cobratwin]

and if it is only happening at odd times get the ECU read it will tell you whats happening even if your mechanic can not get it to play up when hes testing it

the Throttle body would give you erratic idle but it very unlikely to give you" "marginally" start, which gives me a feeling that it just run on some but not all cylinders.... the engine shakes, white smoke coming from the exhaust, a strong smell of unburned gas"

oh and lastly what is the condition of the battery?

 

[Undefined]

First of all, thank you very much for your reply.

Yes, even in scenario 2, the car continue to run.

The battery just changed 3 months ago....

My mechanics just changed the TDC sensor that helped me to solve the Coil pack problem a year ago...

 

[hodroyd]

Sounds like the engine could be flooding with petrol?? Do you allow all flashing lights to stop and buzzer to go off before you try to start the car and do you press the accelerator, or not??
Have you tried a major reset - Battery shut off switch in the boot, leave for 30 minutes then switch back on ( before you switch off, lower the drivers window and open the boot)

 

[Undefined]

Yes, I always wait the flash lights go off and even the alert sound that reminding me not fastening the seat belt before starting the engine...

Haven't try major reset by disconnecting battery... believe that it could be my next step then.... :~~(

Thank you very much for your help first.....

 

[cobratwin]

i Dont think its the knock sensor then, if the car continues to run in scenario 2, if it was degrading then it would shut the engine down.
A full Major reset might work, but you really should have your error codes read imo.

 

[hodroyd]

Knock sensors will limit the revs when either going, or about to go, they should not make it not start. If the air filter is dirty you could try starting the car with this removed. Is the MAF sensor working OK??

 

[cobratwin]

depends how bad it is ive known them to prevent start-up but its usually in conjunction with a loud knocking aswell ie exhaust heatshield lose, but agree its unlikely to be his problem.

Removing the MAF will work as a test as well, the car will revert to factory setting once unpluged, but on a Auto car it may not start, or if it does run very badly. untill the the car is moving.
so if it is on its way out then it Might give some of your symptoms....

 

[conaero]

Ok, we had this a few weeks back, then engine would cut at the point of fire.

Turned out to be that the TDC sensor had been dislodged.

Its a cheap and easy item to do so I would replace that first.

The reason for the strong fuel and smoke is that you are flooding the engine, so it would appear you have fuel pressure.

Ill dig out that post for you so you can follow it through and double check your fuel pressure.

 

[conaero]

Here you go, have a read through the whole thread and follow the steps:

http://www.sportsmaserati.co.uk/sho...ver-starts-for-fraction-of-a-second-then-dies

 

[ajb101]

Sounds a little like what was happening to mine, it was the throttle body in the end.

 

[conaero]

Maybe, there is a vid in that link to check the TB.

 

[Undefined]

Hi all,

Thanks for your advice! I've disconnected the battery for over 12 hours and reconnected it again... but no luck, the problem still happen... I've taped the problem and see whether it helps solving the problem...

Seems like, most likely, it happens during the car is cold... when it warmed up a bit, the start will be smooth (at least in most of my cases):

1) The first attempt, the starter ran.... and I stopped and then... a longer attempt, the starter runs... nothing came and I pressed the pedal and seems like it got some responses, so I pressed it again and again... finally, got the engine started marginally, but not stable and it got some white smoke from exhaust with strong smell of fuel... RPM was over 1K.
[video=youtube;NvjmxSl5a_w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvjmxSl5a_w[/video]

2) I stopped the engine and start the engine again (well.... got quite a number of attempts failed)... anyway, started marginally again... and this video showing the unstable RPM between 1200 to 1500...
[video=youtube;VSTLODPamJE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSTLODPamJE[/video]

3) I let the engine ran for a while and stop the engine and start again. It ran perfectly.... RPM dropped to normal (just below 1000) when idle and the sound of engine was normal not roaring....
[video=youtube;GFXTSQA0Jik]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFXTSQA0Jik[/video]

Noticed that the engine head temp was so low when I cannot start the engine, but it pointed to 70 under the perfect start.... not sure whether it is related..... And after I started, I can drive the car normally... I did it to re-charge my battery after such a lot of start up attempts....

Really appreciate if you could give me some hints on what's wrong.... Thank you very much!

 

[Undefined]

Sounds a little like what was happening to mine, it was the throttle body in the end.

So, you have to change your throttle body? I've attached the video of my engine start attempts... could you help seeing whether the symptoms are the same? Thank you very much!

 

[cobratwin]

Ok doesnt seem like a MAF problem your rpm would be much more erratic.
Dont think it is a TB problem but it might be worth pulling it out and giving it a clean?.
i still think it might be TDC sensor ether faulty or not aligned right. but i think it would be wise to get your error codes read, on a failed start and a start with the rpms all over the place something should be registered.

 

[Undefined]

Ok doesnt seem like a MAF problem your rpm would be much more erratic.
Dont think it is a TB problem but it might be worth pulling it out and giving it a clean?.
i still think it might be TDC sensor ether faulty or not aligned right. but i think it would be wise to get your error codes read, on a failed start and a start with the rpms all over the place something should be registered.

Just used the OBD2 reader read the code... nothing just P0700, which appeared even before this problem came up.

 

[saintetienne]

Tricky one , just a thought , does this car ever use coolant or need topping up ?

 

[ajb101]

So, you have to change your throttle body? I've attached the video of my engine start attempts... could you help seeing whether the symptoms are the same? Thank you very much!

I can't see from work, videos are blocked. However, mine was revving between 1000 and 1500 also, because the TB was struggling to open the butterfly valve.

There are instructions somewhere, which tell you how to check it. It's literally 4 screws and shove your finger in and see if you can move it SMOOTHLY. It's the round black end cap in the front of the air plenum if I remember rightly.

 

[conaero]

The hunting idle, mine used to do that all the time, still think its the TDC crank sensor, do this these tests and post back your videos:

Fuel rail pressure (check both sides):

[video=youtube_share;G3M0mkY08Ag]http://youtu.be/G3M0mkY08Ag[/video]


TB test:

[video=youtube;pDWtaBZUhy8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDWtaBZUhy8&feature=youtu.be[/video]


Basically, if you have fuel pressure, and you have air, then you issue is spark or timing. Its highly unlikely that all 8 coil packs and spark plugs have gone (just take a couple out to make sure they are not corroded due to some sort of contamination or water ingress) so the timing is controlled by the ECU and the TDC crank sensor. The ECU is ok as you have no lights so it thinks everything is ok, but if the TDC sensor has failed or come adrift, the spark does not happen at the right time on startup.