3200 restarting after stall. Immobilisor?

[Sniffer]

Can someone confirm if the fact that my 3200 needs 30 seconds with the ignition off after stalling it before it will restart is a design feature or not? The same applies if I turn the car off after a run then try to immediately restart. It occurs at any time after the car has been running for a short while.

Everything which should happen in terms of dash lights and the engine cranking is normal. It just does not fire. If I leave it for 30 secs and try again, it then fires up as normal. No signs of excess fueling or anything.

The only odd thing is that if I start the engine, then switch it off after 2 or 3 secs, it will then restart.

What should I be looking at?

 

[NickP]

Hi,

I get this sometimes, I believe it is a feature and happens when the turbo cooling fans have cut in, you have to wait for them to stop before it will restart. Very frustrating when you stall the car and have a queue of traffic behind you!

 

[Danny]

IMO it is not a design feature. I have had three 3200's in total and I have never experienced this problem with any of these cars.

 

[NickP]

I can only comment on my own experiences... I have no idea why it does it it just does.

 

[dem maser]

I have a solution......

Auto

 

[Rex B]

Hi

I have a manual 3200 and mine does not do this. I don't know what it is but a session on an SD2 tester should identify any problems with the sensors and the fuel pressure could also be checked to ensure it is not overpressurising the system ( 2.5 bar at starting 3 bar running). As one fuel pump is used at starting and the 2nd is energised after the engine has started, but should time out after 3 seconds when the engine is stopped. Checking the fuel pressure should verify this opertion, or perhaps buy listening for the relays to change status.

Rex B
Manual 3200

 

[Rex B]

Update

Just had a search elsewhere abnd a number of people have had this problem cured by changing the crankshaft sensor.

Rex B
manual 3200

 

[conaero]

Ah yes of course. Thinking about it now I had tha same issue on my Alfa, turned out to be the TDC sensor. Similar functioning sensor, basically the brain gets confused as it thinks the timing is wrong or tries to fire at the wrong point.

 

[NickP]

This is really interesting. I thought this was a feature of the car as its been doing it since I owned the car! Its been through several services and many sensor changes etc but never has this been picked up, it certainly doesn't trigger a CEL. I'll get this changed at the next service.

 

[conaero]

It wouldn't trigger the CEL as the brain does not think anything is wrong, it just does not fire....or at least that is what happened on the Alfa.

 

[Fat Arnie]

For info.

I have done lots of design and mapping of injection systems for race cars in the past, and I think it is very unlikely to be the crank position sensor (CPS).

The sensor provides a sine wave to the ECU analogue input. Where the missing teeth are on the trigger wheel, there are no cycles in the sine wave hence the ECU can determine the position of the crank.

Whilst it is possible for the sensor to fail, it will generally work at low RPM and fail or cause missfire at high engine rpm.

The ONLY time when the CPS may cause a starting issue is if the position or orientation of the sensor is wrong. Generally if the car runs OK warm this will only create an issue when the engine is cold when cranking is slower. Given the OP states the problem occurs with a hot engine I think the issue is elsewhere.

Is there not an issue with some cars relating to filling the tank causing the car not to restart?

 

[Rex B]

I know it may not seem logical but this is what quite a lot of owners are reporting as curing the problem. What is also important is that the gap is adjusted correctly to 0.6mm as this effects the peak volage generated is dependant on the toooth gap.

Rex B

 

[Zombie]

The other simple thing to replace is the carbon canister. I have been through this too and replaced everything.

But stalling when the fans are on still causes problems for me.

Car bump starts fine in this situation so I think that its just that the starter motor+fans are taking too much voltage to allow the sparks/injectors to do their thing properly.

Also I note the car is more prone to stall when fans are on.

My simple cure is to never let RPM go below 1100 when moving slowly!

Cheers
Zombie

 

[conaero]

Zombie that sounds a pain.

Have you checked the voltage accross the battery terminals when it's idling. It should show 14 volts, if not, the alternator is on its way out.

 

[Rex B]

The engine management strategy is supposed to increasee the throttle opening to keep the idle speed constant ( or as contant as it ever is on a 3200) to allow for increases in load due to AC, compressors, rear screen heaters and other electrical loads.

Also with regard to starter motors, these can become lethargic, the stator magnets can become detached from the casing (they are only bonded on), the first sign of this can be the starter turning the car over slower than it should do, and eventually they can jam the starter altogether. Obviously if your starter does start to turn the egine over fast enough then it could also be part of the problem.

The indie told me that the starter should go RaRaRaRa and not Ra Ra Ra Ra sounds daft like a dance but its true, I changed it and noticed the difference.

Rex B
Mnaual 3200

 

[Fat Arnie]

Zombies problem may be the IACV (Idle Air Control Valve) This is what would control idle vs load in any car with cable operated throttle. I'm not sure the fly-by-wire would make much difference unless it is a closed loop system (i.e takes a tacho input)

 

[davy83]

Have you tried locking and unlocking the car before attempting a re-start? I seem to remember that the timer that immobilises the car if you don't start it straight away also starts if the engine stalls. This would however allow you to restart straight away but if you didn't try to start it for say 30 seconds it would not go. waiting 30 seconds would cure it, but also lock and unlock cycle should clear it too. Just a thought. Incidentally i have a 2001 3200GTA and it will restart on a stall if you crank it straight away, I think? It does not stall really! yes probably an automatic is the answer.

 

[GhostyDog]

Incidentally i have a 2001 3200GTA

are you sure, GTAs are autos none autos are GTs

When crack position sensor/rpm sensor fails on alfas you generally have to wait considerably longer for the car to be able to start again.

 

[Rudy]

It happens to me periodically. I found a unauthorized solution, worth to give it a try...by pressing the brake while turning the ignition key. So far it works 9/10 times. Not sure why, dunno why i did that...but each time i did, it fired up.

 

[rs48635]

Just had my first ever "fail to start", from cold. (really annoying as i raced home to get the 3200 and go out for a spin with 3 mates)

Engine turns over normally but fails to fire.
Could mine be crank sensor?
How can i test this at home?

Car has been standing since friday (not unusual).