Energy crisis

daverichardson

daverichardson

Member
Messages
6,001
Well I bought a new kettle the other day as the 'old' one (about 5 years gave up)
The old one was white plastic with a level gauge so only one cup worth of water could be boiled if desired
It was horrible.
The new one is transparent plastic with a light that comes on as soon as it is plugged in regardless of whether boiling or not. Cost £15.00
It too is horrible
I do not even drink tea or coffee
Something away with the mixer here.............
 
3

3leftovercrest

Member
Messages
310
Did away with an electric kettle about 8 years ago when we installed an induction hob.

Got a Le Creusset kettle for the hob and just fill my coffee cup up with the amount of water I need for a coffee and then boil that (always leave residual in also).

Takes less than 1m and the kettle will never need replacing…..
 
rockits

rockits

Member
Messages
9,172
3leftovercrest said:
Did away with an electric kettle about 8 years ago when we installed an induction hob.

Got a Le Creusset kettle for the hob and just fill my coffee cup up with the amount of water I need for a coffee and then boil that (always leave residual in also).

Takes less than 1m and the kettle will never need replacing…..
Click to expand...
Interesting. What is the cost to run the induction hub? Does it work out much cheaper than the kettle as we.have one and never used it for that or worked out the cost.
 
Gazcw

Gazcw

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Messages
7,783
rockits said:
Interesting. What is the cost to run the induction hub? Does it work out much cheaper than the kettle as we.have one and never used it for that or worked out the cost.
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I looked into this a bit. An induction kettle is 85% efficient where an electric is 80%, so more energy efficient. However, an electric kettle uses less energy to boil than an induction so lower consumption. Then factor in other types of kettle ie. Vacuum insulated (thermos) which normally have lower Wattsage element so take longer, but retain heat better. Without side by side data, I gave up and put the kettle on.
 
mjheathcote

mjheathcote

Centenary Club
Messages
9,038
With the possibility of a lower affordable energy cap, how does this effect those who have managed to price cap, with a rate which could now be quite a bit higher than the new proposed lower price cap?
If no exit fees great.
But if you signed onto an EV tariff, you either suck up the day time tarif which could be now quite high, or exit and loose the cheaper overnight...
Unless the likes of Octopus create yet another GO tariff....
 
GeoffCapes

GeoffCapes

Member
Messages
14,000
mjheathcote said:
With the possibility of a lower affordable energy cap, how does this effect those who have managed to price cap, with a rate which could now be quite a bit higher than the new proposed lower price cap?
If no exit fees great.
But if you signed onto an EV tariff, you either suck up the day time tarif which could be now quite high, or exit and loose the cheaper overnight...
Unless the likes of Octopus create yet another GO tariff....
Click to expand...

That's the million dollar question.

We've told all our commercial clients to hold fire on signing a new contract until Ms Truss decides what to do.
 
GeoffCapes

GeoffCapes

Member
Messages
14,000
Koz said:
Martin Lewis is saying this. I fixed and thought I was doing the right thing for my family.
Click to expand...

Martin Lewis doesn't know sh*t about the energy markets.

He is the same Martin Lewis who told everyone to go on a variable rate in April so they could benefit when prices fall. When those in the industry were telling everyone to get a fixed rate for at least 2 years.
 
Wattie

Wattie

Member
Messages
8,640
Koz said:
Martin Lewis is saying this. I fixed and thought I was doing the right thing for my family.
Click to expand...
Putin says this

“Vladimir Putin has said that the way that Britain chooses its leaders is “far from democratic”.

“The people of Great Britain don’t take part, in this instance, in the change of government. The ruling elites there have their arrangements,” he told an economic forum in Vladivostok.

Asked about prospects for ties with Britain, Putin said: “We know the Tories’ position on these questions, including on relations with Russia. It’s their business how to build relations with the Russian Federation. Our business is to defend our own interests and we will do that consistently, let no one be in any doubt about that.”

It’s a ridiculous comment regarding “Democracy”….given the way he controls Russia- but in everything else he’s correct.

What did naive European politicians expect?

If you continue to support a war and impose sanctions, supply weapons in a war that Ukraine can’t win-rather than seek a peaceful negotiation, against someone that supplies a great deal of your reliant energy…..what do you expect?
 
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mowlas

mowlas

Member
Messages
1,733
There are definitely two very distinct schools of thought on Ukraine and whether Putin has any legitimate claim in what he is doing. I almost don’t think it matters which view you hold.

What does matter is Putin’s modus operandi and values in how he is going about Russia’s claims on Ukraine. This is something that can be more objectively observed outside Russia, but it seems more and more Russians are waking up to this. He is an extreme kleptocrat, one of the richest men in World on a civil service salary. He is cruel and ruthless - he is repeating his tactics from Syria in Ukraine. One of his biggest levers has always been to blackmail either through creating influxes of refugees (by bombing civilians), energy or both. Although Russia has a relatively small economy, her tactical influence on the world is big. IMHO he needs to be stopped and the Russian people deserve better (for everyone’s long term good).

The fact is our internal UK energy markets needed reforms which have failed to materialise in the last decade or so. For example the incorrect way in which prices are fixed to gas and the disproportionate profits being allowed for renewables providers, never mind investment in nuclear. This is why we in Britain are feeling a disproportionate pressure to other G7/European countries. That should be fixed by Liz Truss as part of her package of measures.

For the reasons above, some of us don’t believe in caving into Putin’s blackmail and his way of engaging with the world which is barmy and cruel.

His analysis of our democracy is utterly ridiculous and self-serving. We can (and most likely will) change the party in power in 2 years time and we accept and acknowledge each party’s rules of interim leadership selection when we vote. No Russian has that luxury.

I say all this as someone who is not a fan of Truss or the cabinet she has chosen. I may not like it but these are the rules. I do hope she continues to stand up to Putin, but puts through the internal energy market reforms that mean citizens and small businesses don’t have to pay all the price and large corporations share the load of protecting the stability they greatly benefit from.
 
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GeoffCapes

GeoffCapes

Member
Messages
14,000
mowlas said:
There are definitely two very distinct schools of thought on Ukraine and whether Putin has any legitimate claim in what he is doing. I almost don’t think it matters which view you hold.

What does matter is Putin’s modus operandi and values in how he is going about Russia’s claims on Ukraine. This is something that can be more objectively observed outside Russia, but it seems more and more Russians are waking up to this. He is an extreme kleptocrat, one of the richest men in World on a civil service salary. He is cruel and ruthless - he is repeating his tactics from Syria in Ukraine. One of his biggest levers has always been to blackmail either through creating influxes of refugees (by bombing civilians), energy or both. Although Russia has a relatively small economy, her tactical influence on the world is big. IMHO he needs to be stopped and the Russian people deserve better (for everyone’s long term good).

The fact is our internal UK energy markets needed reforms which have failed to materialise in the last decade or so. For example the incorrect way in which prices are fixed to gas and the disproportionate profits being allowed for renewables providers, never mind investment in nuclear. This is why we in Britain are feeling a disproportionate pressure to other G7/European countries. That should be fixed by Liz Truss as part of her package of measures.

For the reasons above, some of us don’t believe in caving into Putin’s blackmail and his way of engaging with the world which is barmy and cruel.

His analysis of our democracy is utterly ridiculous and self-serving. We can (and most likely will) change the party in power in 2 years time and we accept and acknowledge each party’s rules of interim leadership selection when we vote. No Russian has that luxury.

I say all this as someone who is not a fan of Truss or the cabinet she has chosen. I may not like it but these are the rules. I do hope she continues to stand up to Putin, but puts through the internal energy market reforms that mean citizens and small businesses don’t have to pay all the price and large corporations share the load of protecting the stability they greatly benefit from.
Click to expand...

The simple fact is that Putin has held Europe to ransom using gas and oil.
We can get oil elsewhere. We can get gas elsewhere. There will be no shortfall.

What needs to happen is the European energy markets to exclude oil Russian exports. That way Russian events/tactics call them what you will, will make no deference to the price of energy.

If this happens the speculators will exit the markets and they will find their own level again. Yes it will be higher as the markets will not be as plentiful as when 50-60% was filled by Russia.
But it will not be anywhere near the levels we are at today.

As a side note. I notice no one has pulled Norway up on the fact that they are now the richest country in the world due to hugely inflated gas prices.
They just have a pop at BP/Shell/Centrica etc.
 
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R

RichTaps

Member
Messages
199
Wattie said:
Putin says this

“Vladimir Putin has said that the way that Britain chooses its leaders is “far from democratic”.

“The people of Great Britain don’t take part, in this instance, in the change of government. The ruling elites there have their arrangements,” he told an economic forum in Vladivostok.

Asked about prospects for ties with Britain, Putin said: “We know the Tories’ position on these questions, including on relations with Russia. It’s their business how to build relations with the Russian Federation. Our business is to defend our own interests and we will do that consistently, let no one be in any doubt about that.”

It’s a ridiculous comment regarding “Democracy”….given the way he controls Russia- but in everything else he’s correct.

What did naive European politicians expect?

If you continue to support a war and impose sanctions, supply weapons in a war that Ukraine can’t win-rather than seek a peaceful negotiation, against someone that supplies a great deal of your reliant energy…..what do you expect?
Click to expand...

I think you are naive when you say that Ukraine can't win. They are definitely capable of winning provided they have the weapons to do the job, and the Russian army continues to be a disorganized relic of WW2.

I honestly don't understand peoples comments in regards seeking a 'Peaceful negotiation' either. Russia has illegally occupied Ukrainian territory, committed war crimes and kills thousands of Ukrainians. As long as Ukrainians want to fight, there is nothing to negotiate other than a complete withdrawal back to Russia. Add to this Putin's stated aim of wiping the concept of being 'Ukrainian' off the face of the earth (genocide), the best thing we can do is support the Ukrainian cause and let Putin know he can't conquer land willy nilly.

I've got 2 tons of firewood and have a supply of woolly jumpers for my winter preparation. I'm happy to continue paying the extortionate cost of gas and electric if it means I'm not lining the pockets of the Russian government.

Putin can do one.
 
GeoffCapes

GeoffCapes

Member
Messages
14,000
RichTaps said:
I think you are naive when you say that Ukraine can't win. They are definitely capable of winning provided they have the weapons to do the job, and the Russian army continues to be a disorganized relic of WW2.

I honestly don't understand peoples comments in regards seeking a 'Peaceful negotiation' either. Russia has illegally occupied Ukrainian territory, committed war crimes and kills thousands of Ukrainians. As long as Ukrainians want to fight, there is nothing to negotiate other than a complete withdrawal back to Russia. Add to this Putin's stated aim of wiping the concept of being 'Ukrainian' off the face of the earth (genocide), the best thing we can do is support the Ukrainian cause and let Putin know he can't conquer land willy nilly.

I've got 2 tons of firewood and have a supply of woolly jumpers for my winter preparation. I'm happy to continue paying the extortionate cost of gas and electric if it means I'm not lining the pockets of the Russian government.

Putin can do one.
Click to expand...

Let's see what the appetite of our European neighbours are in mid winter when energy prices are through the roof further and the temperature has been -10 for the 3rd week on the trot and the death toll from the cold has risen to above the casualties in the Ukraine.

I think there might be a change of tact.
 
R

RichTaps

Member
Messages
199
Any sensible government will cap the price - I do not seriously consider there will be deaths on anywhere near the scale of those that have died in Ukraine.

This is our (relatively small) price for fighting fascism. Europe and the UK have the chance to stand up and be counted by taking a hit in the pocket. The Ukrainians take the hit with their lives.

If we can't take this stand, it casts a pretty gloomy cloud over democracy and it's future.
 
GeoffCapes

GeoffCapes

Member
Messages
14,000
RichTaps said:
Any sensible government will cap the price - I do not seriously consider there will be deaths on anywhere near the scale of those that have died in Ukraine.

This is our (relatively small) price for fighting fascism. Europe and the UK have the chance to stand up and be counted by taking a hit in the pocket. The Ukrainians take the hit with their lives.

If we can't take this stand, it casts a pretty gloomy cloud over democracy and it's future.
Click to expand...

Not every European country can afford to take the hit. And a vast majority of the population (in this country as well) don't want to take the hit.
See how many care about a war 2000 miles away when they can't afford to put their heating on.

I'm not saying it's right, but that may well be the case.
 
R

RichTaps

Member
Messages
199
Europe and UK governments certainly can't say they haven't been warned, I expect most wealthy EU governments to pay this winter's energy bills with credit if necessary.

Assuming the poorest are protected from the worst price increases, I'd like to think that the population of the UK is more prepared to do their bit than perhaps we think. If we had a decent government I'd think they'd be messaging the population more clearly on this subject.

We'll see how it goes.
 
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