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Wattie

Wattie

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breezer said:
Well no, fiat is backed by the ability to extract taxes. This makes it pretty credible.
Click to expand...
Not really, if you can print all the money you want out of thin air, by the trillions, seemingly without consequence, why do we need to pay any taxes?

Do you think Tax revenue can ever repay all this debt?

Once trust is lost in the issuer of the currency - Weimar, Zimbabwe, Venezuela.....
 
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breezer

breezer

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Wattie said:
Not really, if you can print all the money you want out of thin air, by the trillions, seemingly without consequence, why do we need to pay any taxes?

Do you think Tax revenue can ever repay all this debt?

Once trust is lost in the issuer of the currency - Weimar, Zimbabwe, Venezuela.....
Click to expand...
Your point is a bit mixed up - if we’re going to get inflation then the debt will become smaller in real terms so can more easily be repaid. If we don’t get inflation then there’s no currency devaluation so no problem.

Aside from Weimar Rep, which was on the gold standard so is in no way comparable, those examples are tin pot countries with no global power. USD remains the global reserve currency, which gives it a special status.
 
Wattie

Wattie

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breezer said:
Your point is a bit mixed up - if we’re going to get inflation then the debt will become smaller in real terms so can more easily be repaid. If we don’t get inflation then there’s no currency devaluation so no problem.

Aside from Weimar Rep, which was on the gold standard so is in no way comparable, those examples are tin pot countries with no global power. USD remains the global reserve currency, which gives it a special status.
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The only way they’ve got of getting rid of the debt is by inflating it away.
Not taxes.

Germany suspended the gold standard at the start of the war.........hence it borrowed and printed lots of money without the resources to back it up.

USD has faith for now, but it was responsible for the 2008 crash and it’s printing at the fastest rate in history now......if there’s another bust and that that trust runs out.....BOOM.
 
Wattie

Wattie

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@safrane
Your income does not keep up......that’s the trouble.....you need buckets of cash as prices of goods accelerate.
In Germany in the 20’s a wheelbarrow containing 100’s of millions of cash was worth more than the cash.

No inflation today....my ars3, look at the problem first time buyers have getting on the housing ladder.
Look at house prices globally.
Shrinkflation, plenty.
Central bank inflation denials.....they can’t admit it can they.
 
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Nayf

Nayf

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2,751
Wattie said:
@safrane
Your income does not keep up......that’s the trouble.....you need buckets of cash as prices of goods accelerate.
In Germany in the 20’s a wheelbarrow containing 100’s of millions of cash was worth more than the cash.

No inflation today....my ars3, look at the problem first time buyers have getting on the housing ladder.
Look at house prices globally.
Shrinkflation, plenty.
Central bank inflation denials.....they can’t admit it can they.
Click to expand...
It’s this what makes Bitcoin in particular so interesting. I was a naysayer for years - ‘how do you mine a non-physical thing?!’ - but it was pointed out to me that unlike cash, Bitcoin is finite.
It’s recent dip may have burned those who bought high, but it is only going one way, and has started to rebound.
For what it’s worth I don’t have any cryptocurrency, largely because I don’t have much currency at all...
 
Wattie

Wattie

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Nayf said:
It’s this what makes Bitcoin in particular so interesting. I was a naysayer for years - ‘how do you mine a non-physical thing?!’ - but it was pointed out to me that unlike cash, Bitcoin is finite.
It’s recent dip may have burned those who bought high, but it is only going one way, and has started to rebound.
For what it’s worth I don’t have any cryptocurrency, largely because I don’t have much currency at all...
Click to expand...
Physical Gold/silver (far cheaper) are finite too.....
 
Nayf

Nayf

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2,751
Wattie said:
Physical Gold/silver (far cheaper) are finite too.....
Click to expand...
That is the big debate. There was an interesting YouTube debate about it - I’m ambivalent as I see the benefits of both. Bitcoin is a bit more translatable into direct assets - take the Mecum auction at the weekend, which accepted Bitcoin for the first time.
I doubt they’d accept you turning up with a lump of gold to pay for a muscle car.
Going forwards the utility of Bitcoin is what will give that the edge in terms of a market, but I think that gold/silver will always have an appeal.
Ideally you’d hedge your bets and have both.
I wouldn’t bother with other cryptos unless they have a finite allocation, unless you’re of a ‘casino’ mind.
Again I don’t have skin in the game, I just take an outsider view of it all. I still think there’s interest in traditional stocks - as I mentioned earlier in the thread, Rolls Royce Holdings and IAG look massively undervalued as the world starts to open up again.
 
Wattie

Wattie

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Nayf said:
I doubt they’d accept you turning up with a lump of gold to pay for a muscle car....
Click to expand...
I think you’ve misunderstood the point.......you sell your “store of value gold” for its at the time value in cash.....which of course has sky rocketed and maintained your purchasing power.

I fail to understand how Bitcoin is a store of value at this point. Imagine selling your house (or any high ticket price item produced) for Bitcoin a week and a half ago..........how’s that working out for you thus far......
It’s too volatile, has too many whales and at this point is too vulnerable to government action.
 
whereskeith

whereskeith

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821
Wattie said:
I think you’ve misunderstood the point.......you sell your “store of value gold” for its at the time value in cash.....which of course has sky rocketed and maintained your purchasing power.

I fail to understand how Bitcoin is a store of value at this point. Imagine selling your house (or any high ticket price item produced) for Bitcoin a week and a half ago..........how’s that working out for you thus far......
It’s too volatile, has too many whales and at this point is too vulnerable to government action.
Click to expand...

You have actually in a way answered you own point / question here .
you take your gold to an exchange sell it for cash which either means walking round with physical gold or hoping your online purchase was backed up with physical
Or
you receive your bitcoins and go online to the exchange account you have and sell them for fiat at mkt rate and transfer the cash .
Its the same process, both can lose value as an investment so the risk to hold is in both .
 
Wattie

Wattie

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whereskeith said:
You have actually in a way answered you own point / question here .
you take your gold to an exchange sell it for cash which either means walking round with physical gold or hoping your online purchase was backed up with physical
Or
you receive your bitcoins and go online to the exchange account you have and sell them for fiat at mkt rate and transfer the cash .
Its the same process, both can lose value as an investment so the risk to hold is in both .
Click to expand...
As a Gold dealer I kinda know the Qs&A’s re the metal.
I think Bitcoin has a place (other crypto’s probably moreso).....but when the speculation ends, the store of value begins.....these things are massively overvalued just now.
Jmo.
 
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whereskeith

whereskeith

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821
Wattie said:
As a Gold dealer I kinda know the Qs&A’s re the metal.
I think Bitcoin has a place (other crypto’s probably moreso).....but when the speculation ends, the store of value begins.....these things are massively overvalued just now.
Jmo.
Click to expand...
I have a question for you .
If all the people who think they own physical gold asked for delivery am I correct in assuming that there would be a huge issue because of rehypothecation ?
 
Wattie

Wattie

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whereskeith said:
I have a question for you .
If all the people who think they own physical gold asked for delivery am I correct in assuming that there would be a huge issue because of rehypothecation ?
Click to expand...
You would be and you clearly have been doing some research.
Biggest manipultaion/scandal in history

Ponzi scheme?
.....
www.accesswire.com

U.S. Congressman Seeks Full Audit of America’s Gold Reserves

CHARLOTTE, NC / ACCESSWIRE / May 26, 2021 / America's gold reserves would be audited for the first time in more than 60 years if a measure introduced yesterday by U.S. Representative Alex Mooney (R-WV) becomes law. The Gold Reserve Transparency Act of 2021 - H.R. 3526 - backed by the Sound Money...
www.accesswire.com www.accesswire.com

Weimar.......
 
whereskeith

whereskeith

Member
Messages
821
Wattie said:
You would be and you clearly have been doing some research.
Biggest manipultaion/scandal in history

Ponzi scheme?
.....
www.accesswire.com

U.S. Congressman Seeks Full Audit of America’s Gold Reserves

CHARLOTTE, NC / ACCESSWIRE / May 26, 2021 / America's gold reserves would be audited for the first time in more than 60 years if a measure introduced yesterday by U.S. Representative Alex Mooney (R-WV) becomes law. The Gold Reserve Transparency Act of 2021 - H.R. 3526 - backed by the Sound Money...
www.accesswire.com www.accesswire.com

Weimar.......
Click to expand...

you can bet that they won’t allow that audit to ever happen
 
Tallman

Tallman

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1,834
This guy at Coin Bureau has a very good crypto news channel, especially the weekly market recap
although the mind boggles with all the technical and market aspects that the various coins have/cater to. For example I quite like the idea behind the VeChain logistical coin (VET) - from an ex Louis Vuitton CFO : it tracks products from factory to consumer to vouch for originality (anti-fake). So it is a complete logistical system with sensors/rfid tags etc that uses its coin/blockchain to track the product and operate the model. Basically a lot of the coins are replacements of our current “trust” model - the trust is built in so you don’t have to trust someone.
 
lozcb

lozcb

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12,586
whereskeith said:
I have a question for you .
If all the people who think they own physical gold asked for delivery am I correct in assuming that there would be a huge issue because of rehypothecation ?
Click to expand...
Thats exactly the reason one should in practice should hold physical gold .....................not paper gold , you hold paper gold and at some point one could get shafted
 
stindig

stindig

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Messages
450
Tallman said:
This guy at Coin Bureau has a very good crypto news channel, especially the weekly market recap
although the mind boggles with all the technical and market aspects that the various coins have/cater to. For example I quite like the idea behind the VeChain logistical coin (VET) - from an ex Louis Vuitton CFO : it tracks products from factory to consumer to vouch for originality (anti-fake). So it is a complete logistical system with sensors/rfid tags etc that uses its coin/blockchain to track the product and operate the model. Basically a lot of the coins are replacements of our current “trust” model - the trust is built in so you don’t have to trust someone.
Click to expand...
It’s a really informative channel, but Guy is apparently a paid actor, and the info for the channel comes from a Goldman Sachs analyst (hopefully ex)
 
breezer

breezer

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Messages
229
Tallman said:
This guy at Coin Bureau has a very good crypto news channel, especially the weekly market recap
although the mind boggles with all the technical and market aspects that the various coins have/cater to. For example I quite like the idea behind the VeChain logistical coin (VET) - from an ex Louis Vuitton CFO : it tracks products from factory to consumer to vouch for originality (anti-fake). So it is a complete logistical system with sensors/rfid tags etc that uses its coin/blockchain to track the product and operate the model. Basically a lot of the coins are replacements of our current “trust” model - the trust is built in so you don’t have to trust someone.
Click to expand...
Sorry bit blockchain can’t do this. Yes the ledger entry can’t be changed, but the item can still be switched surely? Unless we put each item in a sealed box that can’t be forced open without a sensor triggering an automatic record being added to a blockchain? And even then you still have to trust that the box is actually tamper proof. Which nothing really is.
 
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