Maserati fiddling emissions?

I don't doubt the sense of them, and their value to the company, the world seems in love with the diesel engine for the moment, I just thought that man maths was what held sway here

One thing on the emissions front, I wouldn't be overly comfortable. There are other pollutants than those currently taxed on, that contribute disproportionately to poor air quality. A number of cities have plans to ban diesels engines from them. Of course this is a political hot potato as the taxation regime could have been said to encourage people buying diesels over petrol and its a little tricky to raise those taxes in a manner that's perceived to be fair. I would guess that the governments are hoping that electric comes along quickly to save their blushes and that those driving diesels will move to electric because it makes sense economically.

From what I can see the ban on diesels is very sensationally reported. Certain cities are banning Euro II, III etc.. I haven't seen any of them banning modern diesels.

Even using maximum man maths, it took all my skills to persuade the boss (the wife of course) for us to spend what we did on the Ghibli diesel. Even a few thousand more would have been a bridge too far!!!
Although if I had spent the extra on the petrol, my vanity does make me wonder about telling people my car has a Ferrari built engine!!

Well said Keith.

You get the impression that some would actually quite like to see Maserati go bust. Perhaps so they can say I told you so or feel smug about having one of the last "true" Maseratis. I would guess they're some of the people that have contributed the least to enabling Maserati to survive, having never bought a new Maserati, done everything possible to avoid paying for Maserati service or replacement parts, and spent a lot of time slagging off the new cars on which Maserati's very survival depends. Strange way to support the brand they profess to love.........

I'm not knocking the diesel really, each to their own, and better to buy a car and support the dealer network to keep Maserati in the business of making desirable cars. Even though I know its too expensive, and too big, I'm really tempted by a QP VI GTS to replace the Ghibli.

There are moves afoot against diesel in the same way as there are against large engined cars in general. Especially in light of fiddling accusations that keep being levelled against companies supplying them. In order to comply with the ever tightening emissions targets the manufacturers are having to have ever more sophisticated engine mappings that change dynamically based on the demands at the time. This will mean that under the testing loads the emissions will be less than normal driving modes. So this whole thing is getting silly now.

Maserati have a history of adapting their engine technology to go with the times. Pre/post war were very different beasts due to availability of raw materials. The Bi-Turbo era was influenced by Italian taxation rules, small engines = less tax = cheaper car. I see the current diesel as necessary for them to survive. Its just not for me and fortunately I'm in a position to be able to spend the extra on fuel. I do see diesels disappearing as electric becomes more viable though. These types of investigations will hasten the manufacturers move away from them given the potential liabilities involved.

MrMickS said:

I've owned one diesel. It was a mistake. It won't happen again.

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Same here.

I moved from a 30 mpg Alfa 3.0, to a diesel Citroën C6 mostly because of better economy on long runs to our place in France. However I quickly found, despite official figures, the C6 really only managed 37 mph under my right foot. Some might blithely claim "I get a solid 40 mpg" but to me it didn't seem a great trade, to be 7 mpg to the benefit after you looked at the costs of selling and buying. The costs to trade would have kept the 166 in petrol for the rest of her life.

But even worse to me, worse than having to use gloves to fill the car, worse then the noise or smell, worse than worrying about DPFs and ERGs, was the fact that having bought a diesel for economy, its whole raison d'être being economy, I found myself obsessed with the trip counter and driving for economy; annoyed when it dropped to 36 mpg instead of 37.

I haven't looked at the trip counter in my QP since the day I collected her from Richard Grace; and that feels better

Rwc13 said:

Well said Keith.

You get the impression that some would actually quite like to see Maserati go bust. Perhaps so they can say I told you so or feel smug about having one of the last "true" Maseratis. I would guess they're some of the people that have contributed the least to enabling Maserati to survive, having never bought a new Maserati, done everything possible to avoid paying for Maserati service or replacement parts, and spent a lot of time slagging off the new cars on which Maserati's very survival depends. Strange way to support the brand they profess to love.........

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Owning a few cars I find that forums are very resistent to change - it's not just a Maserati thing. I've had a Disco3, have a Disco4 and am thinking of the new Disco5. It looks interesting but the amount of knocking copy on the Discovery forum is substantial and this for a new car that none of us have driven yet! Change threatens our existing investment in cars and most of us are poor at spotting trends in design, engineering and electronics - we lag.

Most Maserati owners on here will be in a petrol coupe or convertible so will take time to adjust to SUVs and diesels and a sports car hiatus. Diesel is fine as far as I am concerned but I prefer petrol and wish Maserati had brought the Levante over as both petrol and diesel as they have done for Ghibli/QP despite petrol selling in small quantities for these. I've owned a few Maseratis and have bought new. For me the product range is average to (nearly) good but I want a replacement for my GranTurismo that seats four, is sleek and long and has a V6 or V8 petrol engine. The other cars are fine if they allow this to happen but I don't buy saloons and I have brand loyalty elsewhere for my SUV purchases.

Rwc13 said:

Well said Keith.

You get the impression that some would actually quite like to see Maserati go bust. Perhaps so they can say I told you so or feel smug about having one of the last "true" Maseratis. I would guess they're some of the people that have contributed the least to enabling Maserati to survive, having never bought a new Maserati, done everything possible to avoid paying for Maserati service or replacement parts, and spent a lot of time slagging off the new cars on which Maserati's very survival depends. Strange way to support the brand they profess to love.........

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Strong words which I take exception to being one of the ones who can't afford new so 2nd hand my only option, but I have always loved the concept, the dream, the idea of owning a Maserati.......so yes, I do love the brand and proud to say so but I am also willing to admit that I am one of the ones who believes Maserati going SUV as their lead car rather than GT is a brand mistake I hope does not have fatal consequences leading to no more GTS or worse, no more Maserati ......... To explain why some on here like me are not jumping up and down about the new model just how would Porsche forums react to no more 911s and them being replaced by Porsche's SUV leading their brand?

Errr.....when did they announce that the Levante was a replacement for the GT and that there would be no more GTs? Must have missed that one

Interview with Jag product boss on the radio last year.. "Why are you building an SUV"? The reply was kids / young people nowadays aspire not to owning sportscars, but to owning a flashy SUV. That's the premium market. Join it or disappear. Look at Porsche.

Be thankful people are prepared to buy a used Maserati....the residuals would be dreadful otherwise.

I'm not knocking people buying used Maseratis. I do it all the time. But Maserati doesn't build cars for used car buyers. It builds cars for new car buyers. So it has to build cars that new car buyers want to buy, and that will make it money. That's why it's building 4 door saloons and SUVs. And hopefully there will then be plenty of profit to replace the relatively low volume GTs. So Maserati used car buyers knocking Maserati new cars and their buyers is pretty counter productive when it will be the new cars that provide Maserati with the funds to build the new GTs that we all want to see.


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Let's see what happens. As they grow then we will get a wider range of products. What I find strange is that producing a coupe version of the Ghibli would be relatively easy and they could have done that as a stop gap/cheaper coupe leaving room to replace the GranTurismo as an expensive/low volume range topper in time. I probably would have even bought the former but I'm now six years into a great car but one that I would be replacing now if I could.

Maserati to me was all about the heritage, motorsort, the brand that was underrated & a little different. Not perfect but that was the attraction. I've always wanted one since I was a little kid. They hit the nail on the head bang on for me....or did.

Compromises are evident in many of their cars & most are not perfect but that is what makes them perfect for me. It also adds bags of character. Do I want a diesel Maserati....NO. Do I want a Maserati SUV...NO. Do I want them to make SUVs & diesels....NO. For me it dilutes & devalues the brand & their true identity. It attracts people to buy a new Maserati not because it is a Maserati.

I am the same as many on here in that neither can I afford or justify to afford a new Maserati. However some can and do and that is great. We then fulfil an important role to keep 2nd hand values strong by buying them & keeping them on the road. If people like us weren't there to support the Maserati brand/cars for the longer game they would have ceased to be around long ago.

If you would have said to anyone who really gets & understands the Maserati brand that they should & would start making diesels & SUV's many years ago you would have thought they were nuts. I don't see why a small volume sports car manufacturer cannot exist & stick true to their core values. Why follow the sheep like Porsche & start making cars that are not true to their heritage just to make money as they know the market will buy them. That is fine maybe & I can live with if it helps create money & more resources to building the vehicles they should be making. This has clearly not happened yet.

I am concerned that the 2nd tier of people buying 2nd hand Maserati SUV's or diesels won't be as strong as us lot who keep the 2nd hand sports Maserati's quite strong & buoyant. If I want a good/true SUV I would be looking at someone who has been doing it some time. Not someone who has done it for the 1st time. Would I employ a builder who has never built a house before to build one for me....NO. We have an XC90 & a Freelander 2.

I think it is absolute madness that Maserati ceased the 4200/GS then didn't replace it. I think it is absolute madness that they have done the same with the GT. I think it is absolute madness they haven't brought out a 2 seater in either front engine/RWD or more engined/RWD..and a manual....or a 2+2.

Trully great minds like Steve Jobs (I am far from an Apple fan but quite the opposite BTW!) famously created products people didn't know they wanted until he made them. Maserati are doing the opposite. They are not creating Maserati's that people who understand/appreciate Maserati want. Worse than that they are creating vehicles that many of us don't want or don't understand selling them to people who are unlikely to be true or loyal to the brand. Fine if you have cracking service/support & customer service but we have known for many years this is not big on their agenda list or particular great.

They should be sticking their neck out there and putting their neck on the line to create a true Maserati product that true Maserati punters get. If there was an Alfieri or a new GT with a V8 petrol & maybe even a manual box.....you know what....I might actually buy my 1st brand new Maserati. If it is not there it is never going to happen. I don't expect I am alone.....maybe I am! No change there then!!

rockits said:

I am the same as many on here in that neither can I afford or justify to afford a new Maserati. However some can and do and that is great. We then fulfil an important role to keep 2nd hand values strong by buying them & keeping them on the road. If people like us weren't there to support the Maserati brand/cars for the longer game they would have ceased to be around long ago.

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This is an important point. If there isn't a strong second hand demand for Maseratis then it reduces the number of people that can afford to buy new, or nearly new, ones. Strong demand creates strong residuals, which decreases the overall costs of ownership of new ones. The people that buy second hand are as important as those that buy new.

rockits said:

I don't see why a small volume sports car manufacturer cannot exist & stick true to their core values.

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When was Maserati last a small volume sports car manufacturer? I reckon it was probably in the 60s. The advent of the QP created a new market and one that Maserati have been in ever since. So they haven't just been a sports car manufacturer since then. As others have said the market for sports cars is dwindling. A generation is coming along that wants the fat SUVs that drive themselves. Not really my cup of tea but its where the market is. Since Orsi took over Maserati has moved away from being a pure sports car maker and instead been a luxury car maker. There have been some cracking sports cars along the way but its not just what Maserati is about.

rockits said:

They should be sticking their neck out there and putting their neck on the line to create a true Maserati product that true Maserati punters get. If there was an Alfieri or a new GT with a V8 petrol & maybe even a manual box.....you know what....I might actually buy my 1st brand new Maserati. If it is not there it is never going to happen. I don't expect I am alone.....maybe I am! No change there then!!

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There's that definition that crops up in forums the world over a 'true Maserati punter'. Is the same with supporters of bands, "I liked them before they were famous". Opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one, and everyone's is equally important to them and valid from their point of view. I'd love Maserati to make a new GT, or the Alfieri, I expect them to be V6 though, with more HP than the current V8s. Does that make them not true Maseratis? Going back over history I'd say not, Maserati have always adapted their engines to go with the times. What I would like to see is more innovation on the engine front though, that Alfa V6 has some tricks that the current Maserati V6 doesn't have, and more power to boot. Maserati adapts that's been the only consist thing over the 100+ years.

I'm waffling now so will shut up and get back to working to pay for my Maserati's fuel bill

Points taken and valid. I actually view the QP V as a sports car a sports saloon if you like. It is not primarily a soggy really comfy exec luxury car. It is not....there are many geared up for that & doing it far better.

Don't get me wrong it is a nice and comfortable place to be. However it is not what I would call a smooth luxury car. The gearbox, engine and suspension is not good enough or tuned for this. Too sharp & jerky to be a true exec or luxury wagon. Big Jags & Mercs are much better at this. It is a great sports saloon though.

Did Jaguar not follow this same route after the 70s...a brand with a good racing and sports image qho moved where they thought the money was and ended up with a totaly different image.

Only now with the F Type and the very last XK is it recapturing that image; and they only managed that after being bought by India.

Don't assume anyone who buys a diesel Maser, or indeed an SUV Maser wasn't a Maser fan anyway

And thinking back through Maserati's history wasn't it littered with bankruptcies and takeovers?

I believe that it can thrive with big saloons, SUVs and diesels, aswell as GTs and sportscars, as long as they get them right. I do wish they'd hurry up with the Alfieri however.. and get that "Alfa" V6 from the Giulia QV in the Maser range. (should have done it the other way round, put it in a Maser first then the Alfa)

Spot on. Although you're aren't a proper Maserati fan unless you own a model launched after 1998 and before 2014


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safrane said:

Did Jaguar not follow this same route after the 70s...a brand with a good racing and sports image qho moved where they thought the money was and ended up with a totaly different image.

Only now with the F Type and the very last XK is it recapturing that image; and they only managed that after being bought by India.

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You're right but they still have that old man image - it's a tough one to shift once you have it