Warning!

[jpmondalek]

Anybody tried these? http://www.superformancemaserati.co.uk/acatalog/Suspension-Bushes-1.html

 

[mchristyuk]

JP,

Those are what are currently attached to my subframe.. Just not attached to a wishbone!

Cheers

Mark

 

[Contigo]

Spoke to my Mechanic about this and he thinks the Bolt is not the issue. Bolts are not meant to move anyway when at the right torque so why should a seized bolt cause an issue?

 

[CatmanV2]

Sounds more like the bush seizing so the wishbone is rotating on the wrong bearing surface. But that would logically stiffen the suspension and put more strain on that part of the casting. I *think*

C

 

[mchristyuk]

Phil

I'm guessing it's because the bush seizes to the bolt stopping the bush from moving like it should. Much like tightening them up when the weight of the car isn't on the wishbone. Therefore the rotational forces are transferred to the arm in a way they shouldn't, thus causing the arm to split along the seam.

As I mentioned every one Greg scrapped suffered from a seized bolt... Smoke,fire and all that...

Mark

 

[Contigo]

It's more likely to do with simple metal fatigue and stress. Most of these cars are over 10 years old and are rarely checked over I terms of service like your average Ford. Even the car sitting there for long period could result in this so I reckon it could happen to any car!

 

[mchristyuk]

Hi Phil

I'd agree age and fatigue contribute, but I'd say your average Ford has a far worse service history than our cars. We tend to cherish and spoil our motors where a 10 year old focus can go years without even an oil change...!

Looking at what's been said by those who knew of this issue it would seem to me that the wishbones are surprisingly delicate items and need to be treated with kid gloves... And checked regularly!

I'm wondering whether this should be made a "sticky" somewhere so that new members can be aware as it seems it extends beyond just the 3200 series of cars.

I wouldn't trust a main dealer to wash my car let alone do proper mechanical maintenance, and not everybody is fortunate to have a specialist independent near by who also knows about this "issue".

Mark

 

[Contigo]

Yep I am in the process of making a sticky thread

 

[Maser Sod]

Pretty sure I had a cracked rose joint replaced on my old Rame Ghibli Gransport, an issue spotted during a regulation service.

The car could have been no more than 3 years old when I had it done, and less than 20,000 on the clock.

 

[davy83]

yikes, nasty failure. Its good you are OK and the car is not badly damaged. I am wondering if this another reason why you are supposed to replace the whole arm when the ball joints go. This replaces the metal of the arm, and the bushes all at the same time. I am kind of glad i have gone for new arms when i replaced the ball joints.

 

[mchristyuk]

Hi Davy,

Perhaps, but the bushes are sold as serviceable items and lots of us have just replaced them in the past.

Now we all know about the delicacy of these arms and potential causes of the fractures at least we can look out for it and most importantly stay safe. I still believe it's poor quality materials and basic engineering to blame, but until there's an aftermarket option we're stuck with what we have.

 

[davy83]

Like you i have replaced suspension bushes on many cars with no implications, and this is a scary thought especially given the sort of driving we all enjoy. However there is no doubt that these arms are made to get the sprung weight as low as possible to improve suspension performance. with a regular car like a fiesta safety and long life take precedence over performance, and with Maserati there are many areas where long life a servicability have been put to one side in favour of performance. That's why a ford 3.0l v6 develops 200hp and a maserati 3.0l engine develops 365, its an attitude!

 

[Rex B]

I think that if you want to fit new bushes then as Marios has advised us you need to ensure a correct tool is used,the correct bushes fitted and that the if possible the arms are crack tested afterwards. I note that the bushed used were after market replacements and not Maserati and this could also be a contributing factor. Unfortunatley unless the arm is sent for testing we will never know for sure but at least those that read this forum can get there cars inspected and advise fellow owners.

PS do we think Maserati would be interested in inspecting the broken arm?

Rex B

 

[mchristyuk]

Rex,

There have been lots of cracked arms found with Maserati bushes, so the bush isn't the smoking gun. What I find alarming is that Marios has said that even the Qp's and GranTurismos have suffered from this. I'm sorry but wishbones should not crack faulty bush/bolt or not, it just smacks of poor quality engineering.

How the **** this has been known about for apparently a long time and we've only just found about it amazes me. It's not as if it's dodgy thrust washers, hand brake shoes, water pump, f1 pump or clutch.. They will just cost money. This is a potentially lethal "gotcha". It's a miracle somebody hasn't been seriously hurt yet.

I think that's what has annoyed me most. That this has been known about and nobody has shared it to the wider community.

Mark

 

[Steve GS]

H

Rex,

There have been lots of cracked arms found with Maserati bushes, so the bush isn't the smoking gun. What I find alarming is that Marios has said that even the Qp's and GranTurismos have suffered from this. I'm sorry but wishbones should not crack faulty bush/bolt or not, it just smacks of poor quality engineering.

How the **** this has been known about for apparently a long time and we've only just found about it amazes me. It's not as if it's dodgy thrust washers, hand brake shoes, water pump, f1 pump or clutch.. They will just cost money. This is a potentially lethal "gotcha". It's a miracle somebody hasn't been seriously hurt yet.

I think that's what has annoyed me most. That this has been known about and nobody has shared it to the wider community.

Mark

Totally agree with you on this.

 

[CatmanV2]

How the **** this has been known about for apparently a long time and we've only just found about it amazes me. k

Or, as alternate theory, it's not actually that widespread?

I can't recall anyone on any of the three forums reporting it (although my memory is being ravaged by Christmas). I have no doubt that Marios has seen several. However, as a percentage of cars that *haven't* seen this failure, what does that work out at?

$0.02

C

 

[Rex B]

Mark

I agree, if this is known in the trade I don't know how this information has not been shared before. Many buying guides written on the 3200 and 4200 have identified the bottom ball joints as a problem but the cracked lower arms has never been mentioned. This may be because in most cases the ball joints have worn and the lower arms have had to be replaced before cracks have had time to develop to a point where failure occurs. I don't know the answer but if it has been known for a long time then Maserati should have issued a safety recall on 3200 and 4200.

Rex B

 

[mchristyuk]

According to Greg who has broken numerous 3200's and 4200's he seems to have binned a high percentage of lower and upper arms because of cracks. I would say the cars he receives would be a good cross section of cars out there, eg full dealer history, specialist and no history.

I would say even if it was only 5% of cars then that is too high for a potentially fatal fault.

Perhaps it's not been more known about because the ball joints fail first. Maybe that's why the ball joints aren't replacable as Maserati consider the arms only safe for xxxthousand miles?

It could be our deterioating roads are accelerating the issue and it might now appear before ball joint failure.

I could understand them being fragile if they were out and out racing cars where every gram matters and parts are replaced every race. But these are 4 seat family cruisers with performance that can be matched by many modern GTI hatchbacks!

 

[mchristyuk]

I do have a 4200 arm here which hasn't been near my car with a crack starting to appear, so if anybody wants to inspect it they are welcome to it!

Mark

 

[conaero]

I have a pair of 3200 arms in the garage that were changed for 4200 ones. The 3200 lower arms had 30-35k miles on them.....back in a mo.