The Italian mistress (Gransport Spyder 2006)

[Church of Noise]

Part 1 - how it all started

It all started in 2014, when a friend let me use his QP V for a weekend.
Having always been a big fan of the looks of the car, I was even more smitten after spending 3 days driving it anywhere I could think of.
I might have made a plan then to have a Maserati by the time I turned 40.

Fast forward to 2021 and I've had MGs since getting my driving license +- 20 years before. So it was time for something more exciting, something that looks good, sounds good, and makes me look back when I walk away. (also, it had to have at least 6 cylinders, sound good and be a convertible as that's the easiest upgrade of the exhaust imho)
I'd spent probably 2 years thinking about the topic (it's part of the fun, if I'm honest), and in the mean time I'd also had become a stepfather. So one of my thoughts was a GranTurismo convertible, next to the usual suspects as a 911 convertible of some sort, a couple of TVRs etc.
All of them nice cars, but then, I thought about the 4200/Gransport - yes!

Spending a couple of months browsing the relevant sites, I found a very good looking 4200 Spyder in Frankfurt - a black 2003 car with Cuio interior (and glass rear screen).
When I finally went to see the car after getting a lot of information of the owner, the car spent quite a bit of time at the Frankfurt Maserati dealer fixing an issue. I am convinced if that would not have happened, chances are high I would've bought that one.
In any case, I had some more time to think. A nice blue car appeared in Belgium, so that was added to the list of cars to consider.
And then, a 2006 Gransport Spyder appeared - also in Germany - in what would probably have been the spec I'd ordered the car in: Blue Nettuno with full Cuio leather interior. It was below average in price, but was clearly advertised as having an issue with the gearbox. In most circumstances, I wouldn't even have entertained the possibility but having talked to Adnan at @A.S. Motorsport , we agreed that it was at least a very intriguing option and it seemed like a distinct possibility that this car could be fixed with a reasonable (mind you, I didn't say low) budget.

So early December 2021 we flew out to Hamburg to see the car. It was for sale at a dealer but 'he didn't own it, his best friend did'...
Adnan spent a considerable amount of hours looking at every corner of the car, and we did a test drive - which was scary to say the least, with a gearbox that was on/off at best and a set of Chinese ditchfinder tyres on a rainy December's day.
After making the list of probable fixes and costs, I bit the bullet and came to an agreement with the seller.

Part 2 - initial findings

Early 2020, the car arrived at A.S. Motorsport in the Netherlands.
This is the list of initial work that was done:

• Fix the gearbox issue: check!
• Replace the Chinese ditch finders with Michelin PS4s: check
• Refinish the ball polished wheels in a dark grey (the finish had suffered anyway, and I found them too 'bling'): check
• Replace brake discs and pads: check
• Replace most of the rubber boots (almost all were torn)
• Replace one of the rear control arms
• Major maintenance (fluids, filters, ...)

After the initial work, the car decided it'd try to throw Adnan off the road by tearing its PAS belt during a test drive.

Once that was fixed, I popped over to Amsterdam to drive my car for the first time properly (the first drive in Germany was more of an attempt to control a wild Mustang horse than a proper drive), and it was awesome!

And then... (will continue in a second post)

 

[gotcha]

This sounds pretty much like my story of very long term planning to get a GS I also had a target to get GS when I turn 40 but I had a small delay due to Covid and other issues and delays and I managed just before 41
Lovely car and great colors!
I think I saw it advertised some months ago, is it the one where the add said that the clutch position sensor is most probably installed reversely as the diagnostics shows negative numbers or opposite values for clutch position as it should be or something like that? I looked few times at the add as the price was appealing as you said, but I wanted a coupe

 

[Church of Noise]

Part 3 - there always is a surprise it seems

After the testdrive, still enjoying the Gransport rumble at idle, all of a sudden, I noticed a red light coming up, combined with one needle throwing itself in the direction of 0 on the oil pressure gauge ...

A couple of tests later, it seems the problem keeps popping up when the engine is warmed up and idling. A touch of the fun pedal seas the pressure rise immediately.
We didn't see this happening when testing the car, so maybe the car was running higher viscosity oil, maybe an additive (like Tutela) was added, ...

So now this needs to be fixed.

First step is replacing the oil pressure sensor as these are about as reliable as a politican's promises.
When doing the job, the intake manifold came off and a couple of hoses underneath the manifold were replaced as they clearly were beyond their best before date.
Sadly, once all had been put together again, the problem didn't seem to be solved.

A second theory is that perhaps there is an issue with earthing. Adding a high gauge wire between engine and chassis didn't seem to change anything, and a visual inspection didn't seem to indicate anything worrying about the earth strap. Another theory dismissed.

In the mean time, Adnan is looking for a sandwich plate with an adapter to go between the oil filter and its mounting, to the pressure can be easily measured.
Once the part arrives from Oz, we can do a mechanical measurement and use that to decide how to move forward.

Current state of thoughts is that either the oil/water pump is damaged - presumably the drive part, similar to what @philw696 found on the car he fixed, or the big ends are properly worn. I asked to first do another flush of the oil system, with a cleaning agent, hoping that this could remove any gunk that might be causing it (chance of success is of this is infinitesimally small, I am aware, but it's easy to try and one box I want to have ticked before we move to the other items).
We found the correct US spec oil pump and I already bought it - going on the assumption that if it is not needed now, it could still be good to have it as it might be needed one day and these doesn't seem easy to find.

Very curious to see how this pans out, and to be honest I had hope to have the car on the road now, as I'm turning 40 in 3 weeks, but that's just life I guess.

Lastly, on why I used the word mistress:

• I'm turning 40, and my gf's mom told her: 'Let him get it, he's turning 40 and it's the best option when you compare it with a mistress or a bad drinking habit'
• This is not a rational choice, I choose the car because it has a big impact on my heart rate and it inspires a big smile on my face, despite it continuing to throw up issues and the associated bills (above what I already wrote down, the windscreen will also need to be changed. I'm closely following what @RoaryRati is doing on that topic)
• It just looks gorgeous

 

[zagatoes30]

Great choice and good write up, keep us posted on progress which will be worth it in the long run

 

[Andyk]

Brilliant and a great read.

 

[philw696]

@Church of Noise get the cooling system pressure tested and whilst under pressure take a good look around the water/oil pump assembly and see if there's a leak as that's what causes the drive shaft to rust and the splines slip.
Good Luck.

 

[Church of Noise]

This sounds pretty much like my story of very long term planning to get a GS I also had a target to get GS when I turn 40 but I had a small delay due to Covid and other issues and delays and I managed just before 41
Lovely car and great colors!
I think I saw it advertised some months ago, is it the one where the add said that the clutch position sensor is most probably installed reversely as the diagnostics shows negative numbers or opposite values for clutch position as it should be or something like that? I looked few times at the add as the price was appealing as you said, but I wanted a coupe

It very likely is this one. Whoever worked on the car previous to that clearly wasn't at A.S. Motorsport's level, to put things gently...

 

[Church of Noise]

Part 4 - low oil pressure, high blood pressure

Just received a call from @A.S. Motorsport with the results of the mechanical oil pressure measurements: the gauge on the dash was not lying.
When hot, oil pressure at idle is around 1 bar ie ~15 psi.

So this is not going to be a small thing to fix.
I am rather livid at this point, as

1. the engine has less than 60k miles on the clock (seems to be confirmed by the Carfax documents). From all info I have gathered, these engines can easily do 120k miles+ before this kind of wear should occur. Given the other 'deferred maintenance' we had to do, I would say that the car wasn't exactly pampered before.
2. The low oil pressure came to light after a change of oil, filters, ... That smells a lot like the issue was hidden before, as we never saw this issue when doing the PPI and driving it. (could have been thicker oil, Tutela, ...)

The only way is forward now, so Adnan and his team will

• take out the engine
• inspect the oil pump (but this seems less and less the issue as the oil pressure when cold reads 4 bar ie ~60 psi, I'd expect it to be lower when cold too)
• inspect the crank, big end bearings, look into the cylinders, check variators and camshafts ...
• check whatever other relevant parts we can for while we're there (we have a theory that the flywheel might need replacing)

That will allow us to see what work is needed and how much it will cost.

Unsurprisingly, this wasn't foreseen when budgeting (the engine seemed to be in rude health) and might mean I will have to postpone getting the car registered here until next year.

This must be one of those moments when one realises that having a mistress comes at a cost...

 

[DLax69]

Mistresses...? I'm...er, several...wives in. The Spyder is much cheaper, I promise. You'll also have fewer regrets vis-a-vis the car, in my experience.

 

[Church of Noise]

part 5 - the Mistress is hotter than I had imagined

Tonight, the next part of the story unfolds.
Adnan and his team took out the engine in the last couple of days, and opened it up to some extent.

First observations: the cause for the low oil pressure is clear

What is unclear, is what caused this.

Crank bearings are very very worn, crank sensor is molten (!), other bearings are clearly in a bad shape too.
The crank itself seems fine at first sight, but will be measured to be certain. Oil smelled like very old oil and contained sludge (remember, the oil was changed very recently, so some old stuff was clearly still present)
Further investigation towards other parts including cylinders and pistons still need to happen.
Nothing untoward to be seen on the oil pump so far, but we might open it up still to be sure.

Current assumption is that there was a case of very bad overheating at a certain point in time.

So, the good news is that we figured out where the low oil pressure is coming from, and that in a miraculous way, the engine has not self destructed. This could have been a lot worse, looking at the state of things. Very happy to have followed Adnan's advice not to simply chuck in some thicker oil.

The bad news is that this is never going to be a cheap and simple fix anymore. Further investigation needs to indicate what the total scope of work is, which might also include some stuff in the area of variators etc (this will happen before a lot of further taking apart happens, such as chains/heads/...) and then we can decide on how to take this forward.
This is a sub 60k miles engine, so something must have gone very wrong in the past.

I hadn't imagine she would be this hot...

 

[philw696]

Wow that's been hot for the sensor to melt like that.
Good Luck in getting her rebuilt.

 

[Bebs]

That is simply awful news after a purchase like that. Very sorry to hear it. Best of luck with the rebuild.

 

[Motorsport3]

I would be frustrated too if i were in your shoes but here are some pros i see

GS and particular the spyder is rare and worth saving.
It's good that you didn't pay top dollar for it to start with.
It's also good that when you have all these issues ironed out you will be enjoying a substantially refreshed car that should last a lot longer.

 

[Zep]

Such a shame! I’ve only seen one engine with bearings that looked like that and it was knocking like crazy. As you say, a lucky escape, if it had eaten the crank too it would have been a big pain.

 

[DLax69]

Hey, Alex...there really isn't a lot more to add, except sympathy/empathy. Please continue to keep us all posted, and know that everyone is rooting for you and the mistress!

 

[Black Mazerati]

part 5 - the Mistress is hotter than I had imagined

Tonight, the next part of the story unfolds.
Adnan and his team took out the engine in the last couple of days, and opened it up to some extent.

First observations: the cause for the low oil pressure is clearView attachment 102785View attachment 102786View attachment 102787View attachment 102788View attachment 102789

What is unclear, is what caused this.

Crank bearings are very very worn, crank sensor is molten (!), other bearings are clearly in a bad shape too.
The crank itself seems fine at first sight, but will be measured to be certain. Oil smelled like very old oil and contained sludge (remember, the oil was changed very recently, so some old stuff was clearly still present)
Further investigation towards other parts including cylinders and pistons still need to happen.
Nothing untoward to be seen on the oil pump so far, but we might open it up still to be sure.

Current assumption is that there was a case of very bad overheating at a certain point in time.

So, the good news is that we figured out where the low oil pressure is coming from, and that in a miraculous way, the engine has not self destructed. This could have been a lot worse, looking at the state of things. Very happy to have followed Adnan's advice not to simply chuck in some thicker oil.

The bad news is that this is never going to be a cheap and simple fix anymore. Further investigation needs to indicate what the total scope of work is, which might also include some stuff in the area of variators etc (this will happen before a lot of further taking apart happens, such as chains/heads/...) and then we can decide on how to take this forward.
This is a sub 60k miles engine, so something must have gone very wrong in the past.

I hadn't imagine she would be this hot...

Completely different but not.
Years ago my stepfather overheated the **** out of his Ford V8 to the point it got the bearings. He had me put a crank kit in it. Fast forward around 20,000 miles??? and out of the blue a piston broke at the pin and the rod went through the block. It even broke the crank!
Perhaps you should take a hard look at the pistons for signs of overheating.

PS I would think if it got hot enough to get the bearings the heads would have been trashed. Can you tell if possibly the heads were replaced?

 

[Church of Noise]

Good point on the pistons and the small ends, that is something that is being considered now indeed.

Interesting question on the head. Adnan mentioned that the heads look very new indeed...

 

[Church of Noise]

Disassembly continues, and is documented on A.S. Motorsport 's social media channels as well (eg

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

/ https://www.facebook.com/ASMotorspo...By3BbzPkwNrxgNwUo4rSHAHgkasGqoKemrb4FZuLjuwul).

No major new discoveries it seems, cylinders look good so far (one has minor scratch but should not be an issue).
So no other major damage identified beyond the bearings for now. Next step is to do proper measurements of all relevant dimensions to assess what needs addressing.

When taking off the heads, same odd smell as when opening up at first. No other indications or anything. Maybe Tutela or something of the sort was added? Maybe the smell is linked to overheating? Who knows...

On another note, got in touch with Maserati and the closest official dealer. There's very little history (typical for a US car it seems) , and nothing useful to help us figure out what actually happened here.

 

[philw696]

I'm following their investigation and love their posts on social media.
They certainly are a Great business to watch their workmanship.

 

[Church of Noise]

part 6 - Here are some more pictures to illustrate where we're at:

Pistons look OK, but piston rings will be changed (these seem rather pricey!)


Disassembled engine, after cleaning:


Why is this inlet valve filthy??


Some new insights: major oil running in the inlet tract: stem seals are GONE - another consequence of the overheating it seems:


So all in all, more evidence that seems to point to overheating.

Also, strange, thickish oil depositions seem to point again in the direction of some kind of additive having been added to cover up the low oil pressure.

The more info comes through, the more it seems like somebody was trying to run a 'champagne' car on 'lemonade' money, ie: no proper maintenance and no proper fixes when required. Not unseen that this happens to cars with a high list price after heavy depreciation ...