Remaps.......
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Andyk
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A few GT S have been done on here with mixed results.
Try http://www.performanceitalia.co.uk/ who deal in Formula Dynamics stuff. They have some very good upgrades for the QP. Noor, the owner is on here and I'm sure could help you.
One upgrade that many swear by is http://www.performanceitalia.co.uk/maserati.php?model=Quattroporte&part=MAS-QP-DBW&cat_id=1#parts
Try http://www.performanceitalia.co.uk/ who deal in Formula Dynamics stuff. They have some very good upgrades for the QP. Noor, the owner is on here and I'm sure could help you.
One upgrade that many swear by is http://www.performanceitalia.co.uk/maserati.php?model=Quattroporte&part=MAS-QP-DBW&cat_id=1#parts
Dan!
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As per above post, don't waste your money. I did!
It has been discussed before and there's even video footage somewhere of a head to head with 2 GTS, one standard and one remapped that shows no difference. Any speed gained would be due to the fact your wallet is £1000 lighter.
It has been discussed before and there's even video footage somewhere of a head to head with 2 GTS, one standard and one remapped that shows no difference. Any speed gained would be due to the fact your wallet is £1000 lighter.
With any remap you need to do a bit of research before going ahead so you know exactly what they are playing with and why.
Start with the basic premiss that most modern cars are well calibrated from the off and work backwards from there. Sometimes there are genuine reasons why more power can be gained easily; for example 'global' engines that have ignition timing set to cope with the lowest common denominator in fuel supply. Turbo engines normally offer the biggest reward and with modern target based maps you can raise fairly simple parts of the map, like boost pressure target, and let the OE software do the rest BUT put the car back through the stringent manufacturer durability test and it will probably fail. If you go in with your eyes open and recognise the pit falls that can go with the extra power, or your willing to do complimentary upgrades (bigger coolers and the like) then remaps might be for you.
As for a £1K remap that simply modifies the DBW tables I wouldn't bother, not unless there is a very specific reason that the manufacturer isn't giving you 100% when you want 100% (this does happen, the difference between a 240 and 260bhp Lotus Exige is 20% throttle opening!).
Start with the basic premiss that most modern cars are well calibrated from the off and work backwards from there. Sometimes there are genuine reasons why more power can be gained easily; for example 'global' engines that have ignition timing set to cope with the lowest common denominator in fuel supply. Turbo engines normally offer the biggest reward and with modern target based maps you can raise fairly simple parts of the map, like boost pressure target, and let the OE software do the rest BUT put the car back through the stringent manufacturer durability test and it will probably fail. If you go in with your eyes open and recognise the pit falls that can go with the extra power, or your willing to do complimentary upgrades (bigger coolers and the like) then remaps might be for you.
As for a £1K remap that simply modifies the DBW tables I wouldn't bother, not unless there is a very specific reason that the manufacturer isn't giving you 100% when you want 100% (this does happen, the difference between a 240 and 260bhp Lotus Exige is 20% throttle opening!).
Chrisbassett
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This guy has a couple of videos on engine remaps, what they do and how it's done...
http://youtu.be/0XUM6Z7kB4I
http://youtu.be/0XUM6Z7kB4I
Hi Guys
Thanks for your comments. You will see I am new to the world of Maserati, hence the reason for my asking.
I understand the basics of what you describe Randy, and agree with all your sentiments, but was looking to check if Maserati as a manufacturer had deliberately or otherwise, set their factory specs up in a way which allowed reasonable gains from aftermarket remapping.
This is relevant to a prospective QP V owner such as myself because if I test drive one and think "mmm OK but the performance isn't quite what I'd hoped" then the knowledge that a remap might draw out better throttle response, a few more lbs ft and bhp might help the purchase decision.
As it is, I'll assume no real gains to be had here in N/A world and judge the drive accordingly!
Just following up on earlier comments made to me that 395bhp may be the quoted stock figure for a QP V but 425bhp may well be the real world number.
In my own experience, 420 bhp feels nicely different to 390 bhp in an E39 M5, so I'm hoping the QP V wont feel heavy and sluggish in comparison......
thanks again.....
Thanks for your comments. You will see I am new to the world of Maserati, hence the reason for my asking.
I understand the basics of what you describe Randy, and agree with all your sentiments, but was looking to check if Maserati as a manufacturer had deliberately or otherwise, set their factory specs up in a way which allowed reasonable gains from aftermarket remapping.
This is relevant to a prospective QP V owner such as myself because if I test drive one and think "mmm OK but the performance isn't quite what I'd hoped" then the knowledge that a remap might draw out better throttle response, a few more lbs ft and bhp might help the purchase decision.
As it is, I'll assume no real gains to be had here in N/A world and judge the drive accordingly!
Just following up on earlier comments made to me that 395bhp may be the quoted stock figure for a QP V but 425bhp may well be the real world number.
In my own experience, 420 bhp feels nicely different to 390 bhp in an E39 M5, so I'm hoping the QP V wont feel heavy and sluggish in comparison......
thanks again.....
mowlas
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Well I recently installed a Formula Dynamics DBW and ECM and I can tell you that the investment was definitely worth it. The acceleration feels linear compared with 'before' and the car does accelerate and respond noticeably faster. It feels like more of a beast with this.
Please note for those not in the know, the the Foruma Dynamics products represent a different approach to the DMS mapping mentioned above, which I understand have had mixed or no results reported on this forum.
I cannot tell you if top end speed has increased with the DBW/ECM and probably will not be testing the limits of this car any time in the near future!
One no/low cost thing I would do is to get your dealer/independent to do factory reset on the gear shift mapping. This puts the car back into learning mode so it will get used to your driving style and try to optimise gear changes. When I had this done, the car felt much better to drive than before.
Please note for those not in the know, the the Foruma Dynamics products represent a different approach to the DMS mapping mentioned above, which I understand have had mixed or no results reported on this forum.
I cannot tell you if top end speed has increased with the DBW/ECM and probably will not be testing the limits of this car any time in the near future!
One no/low cost thing I would do is to get your dealer/independent to do factory reset on the gear shift mapping. This puts the car back into learning mode so it will get used to your driving style and try to optimise gear changes. When I had this done, the car felt much better to drive than before.
Mowlas (or others) - I imagine this type of "gear shift mapping" reset is not activated by a battery disconnection. Must it be done using the SD2/3/Leonardo or can it be done some other way?
Thanks
Hi,
had my QP done with DMS when a load of us went down on the same day. Mine was about 390 bhp before with a bad flat spot meaning really only 370bhp was available. After the remap the power curve was a lot better and the max bhp was 452. After the remap the car accelerated in 6th at 70mph as it did in 5th at 70mph prior to the remap.
When my car was in for a service later the tech said the air/fuel settings had been changed.
One side effect is that you may get more misfires which can then overheat the anterior cats causing them to breakdown. Debris can then be sucked into the engine causing damage.
Simon
had my QP done with DMS when a load of us went down on the same day. Mine was about 390 bhp before with a bad flat spot meaning really only 370bhp was available. After the remap the power curve was a lot better and the max bhp was 452. After the remap the car accelerated in 6th at 70mph as it did in 5th at 70mph prior to the remap.
When my car was in for a service later the tech said the air/fuel settings had been changed.
One side effect is that you may get more misfires which can then overheat the anterior cats causing them to breakdown. Debris can then be sucked into the engine causing damage.
Simon
mowlas
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To be honest I am not sure if a battery disconnection will do this or not. I will ask my dealer and let you know. I do know it is a relatively quick thing to do for the dealer. Any how's, will come back to you.
mowlas
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Simon, that sounds like a very positive result from the DMS approach. A couple of questions:
1) Does the car feel better and more responsive through all gears?
2) Did anyone explain how the flat spot had developed in the first place and how the tuning fixed/improved it?
Thanks.
60bhp gain on a modern NA engine is huge. I've been in/around the industry all my life and I've never seen a gain like that through a simple remap!
Couple of questions; you mention there was a flat spot. Was there something specifically wrong with the car causing a flat spot and lack of power? If they have commented on the AFR i would be guessing that maybe the MAF was dirty and reading wrong, that could explain the lions share of that gain?
It is true to say that most manufacturers won't tune AFR to peak power so there may be some gain and that will increase EGT to some extent. Unless you are horribly lean then I wouldn't worry to much about the CATS on a road car. Running rich or retarding the ignition too much will cause them far more damage. If a CAT does break up then it absolutely won't go back into the engine although it can cause a blockage which raises EGT's to a ridiculous level and that can damage the engine.
What do you have in the way or before/after graphs, pref with AFR on the graph?
Couple of questions; you mention there was a flat spot. Was there something specifically wrong with the car causing a flat spot and lack of power? If they have commented on the AFR i would be guessing that maybe the MAF was dirty and reading wrong, that could explain the lions share of that gain?
It is true to say that most manufacturers won't tune AFR to peak power so there may be some gain and that will increase EGT to some extent. Unless you are horribly lean then I wouldn't worry to much about the CATS on a road car. Running rich or retarding the ignition too much will cause them far more damage. If a CAT does break up then it absolutely won't go back into the engine although it can cause a blockage which raises EGT's to a ridiculous level and that can damage the engine.
What do you have in the way or before/after graphs, pref with AFR on the graph?
Torenno Performance
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My 2p's worth......
A 60 BHP delta increase on a 4.7 or 4.2 just isnt feasible. We have supplied plenty of FD ECMs and done traditional remaps to many many maseratis. 60 BHP just isnt there to be unleashed. Each mapper only has certain parameters to play with (Ignition, fueling, timing etc)
If you have a look at companies like Novitec, Formula Dynamics (who have been tuning these cars for many many years) both of these companies only claim an increase of 20-25. Even the Maserati race cars are around 480 BHP that's with revised exhaust components, induction and reprogramming of the ECU.
Saying that a good remap (Traditional or ECM), should show benefits on the butt dyno. Even 25 BHP is noticeable on these cars. If you cant notice the difference then there is no point in spending the money irrespective of what a Dyno sheet says!
The FD ECM is pretty unique compared to a traditional remap:
Piggy Back ECU - easy to disconnect for fault analysis.
Can not be over written by a software update
Can load multiple Maps
Residual Value - Atleast 50% of your investment can be realised if you decide to sell or can be reprogrammed to move onto your next Maserati!
Many Many positive reviews from customers across the globe.
Also the DBW:
Another unique product from FD.
This is not just a simple remap of the TCU, but alot more involved. On the early CCs or duoselects it totally transforms the drivetrain. Removes almost all the inherent flaws of the these gearboxes to make the transmission work in the way we want it too. The DBW is now also available for the MC Shift transmissions, and ive had nothing but positive comments on it.
Increases shift Speed between changes
Removes Lag on initial Take off
Even makes the changes smoother.
Total drivetrain tuning solution for the Maseratis.
Noor
A 60 BHP delta increase on a 4.7 or 4.2 just isnt feasible. We have supplied plenty of FD ECMs and done traditional remaps to many many maseratis. 60 BHP just isnt there to be unleashed. Each mapper only has certain parameters to play with (Ignition, fueling, timing etc)
If you have a look at companies like Novitec, Formula Dynamics (who have been tuning these cars for many many years) both of these companies only claim an increase of 20-25. Even the Maserati race cars are around 480 BHP that's with revised exhaust components, induction and reprogramming of the ECU.
Saying that a good remap (Traditional or ECM), should show benefits on the butt dyno. Even 25 BHP is noticeable on these cars. If you cant notice the difference then there is no point in spending the money irrespective of what a Dyno sheet says!
The FD ECM is pretty unique compared to a traditional remap:
Piggy Back ECU - easy to disconnect for fault analysis.
Can not be over written by a software update
Can load multiple Maps
Residual Value - Atleast 50% of your investment can be realised if you decide to sell or can be reprogrammed to move onto your next Maserati!
Many Many positive reviews from customers across the globe.
Also the DBW:
Another unique product from FD.
This is not just a simple remap of the TCU, but alot more involved. On the early CCs or duoselects it totally transforms the drivetrain. Removes almost all the inherent flaws of the these gearboxes to make the transmission work in the way we want it too. The DBW is now also available for the MC Shift transmissions, and ive had nothing but positive comments on it.
Increases shift Speed between changes
Removes Lag on initial Take off
Even makes the changes smoother.
Total drivetrain tuning solution for the Maseratis.
Noor
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How does the piggyback cope with the long term trims? I can see a piggback working quite on a DBW application where you are basically just asking for more throttle at lower openings but when you are fighting against closed loop control with long and short trims it doesn't take too much for things to get difficult.
Torenno Performance
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In short , it copes very very well. Im pretty sure from my conversations with Jeff that the ECM has a built in memory, where the LTFT is accumulated and stored and adjusted when needed to cope with the varying conditions.
The FD ECM is a very proven products with many long term users from across the globe, from personal experience, I had one on my QP Sport GT for over 2 years and around 50k miles without any issues.
Noor
The FD ECM is a very proven products with many long term users from across the globe, from personal experience, I had one on my QP Sport GT for over 2 years and around 50k miles without any issues.
Noor
BennyD
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I got mine DMSed and I am still pleased with it and, FWIW, I got a 23bhp increase. I don't have a great deal of faith in Dyno figures as it depends so much on the operator putting the correct info into the machine and the sensors in the right place. All I know is is that I can keep up with cars I wouldn't have expected to get near and frequently surprise owners of much more expensive exotica. I comfortably overtook the Countach on the back straight at Bruntingthorpe and he was really going for it. (IIRC, he spun on the entrance to the pit lane and hit a straw bale!).
