Newbie Model/Options based questions

[bigbob]

This will be my daily car for the usual run around, and then much longer runs out to the county at the weekends for some sport M way and then lots of A & B roads. I'm not an Auto fan a really like to 'drive' the cars. Have experience of driving the old E46 M3 SMGII (great), Audi R8 R-Tronic (awful). Btw budget looking to spend anywhere I suppose from 40 - 70k maybe more for "what would have been my factory spec"

Thanks for replying. Before dismissing the 4.7 Auto I would suggest driving one in sport manual mode and see what you feel. Bear in mind that the auto also has the sports exhaust but the valves open at 3000 revs as opposed to 0 revs in the MC so the noise is still present.

The fact that you like SMG is encouraging for you looking at the MC shift. I've driven a V10 M5 which has the SMG box and was very underwhelmed but all this does is underline the importance of getting exactly what you want. I've no idea how R-Tronic drives but I can't see how anything could be worse than SMG. Personal choices!

At the price range you have there will be plenty of choice so best of luck with the search. Finally, though, bear in mind that this is a 1880kg grand tourer. Great as it is, it is a 650i competitor and not an M3.

 

[bigbob]

Phills I'm in the same position as you and looking to get an MC Shift GT S. One thing I will forewarn you about (as it slightly underwhelmed me a little - see my thread a page back or so) is the Single Clutch MC Shift box. Like you an Auto is not what I want so I've only been looking at MC's. The only other automated manual I had to compare the MC Shift against was the M3 E92 DCT and unfortunately it just isn't in the same league. I haven't driven the E46 SMG like you so can't comment on that box but apparently that's kind if on par with the MC Shift.

Either way for me it's not a deal breaker. I want a Maserati for the prestige, looks and above all else the SOUND!! Wait until you hear the roar, crackle and pop of the MC Shift with the Sport button turned on. Literally nothing else out there like it!

Two things:
-the BMW DCT box is light years ahead of the MC box and can't really be compared with it. Lambo have just ditched the single clutch box for the Gallardo replacement and Ferrari did the same when they brought out the 458 a few years back. Ditto Audi which has binned R-Tronic in the R8. DCT is the way forward for paddle shift boxes with single clutch automated boxes now feeling very, very old; and
-all 4.7 engined cars have a sports exhaust but it varies a bit between models. For a modest sum you can fit the FD kit to control the valves exactly as you wish, even getting them to work in auto, normal and ice modes.

 

[FF1078]

I've purchased a 60 plate GT/S MC from Meridien Modena in Hampshire about 2-3 weeks ago. I was dredding the drive home as to be honest I'm a bit of a steady driver now I've reached 40 and coming from a very comfy Range Rover Sport I thought I was going to regret my new purchase. To be honest I love auto boxes as I've got a bit lazy in my middling years but WOW the GT/S MC is awesome. It's comfy in non sport mode and even in sport with skyhook isn't unbearable. My father who is 68 and drives a Range Rover SDV8 and also a Bentley Azure even loves it and was really shocked how easy the MC shift is to use. In my view the MC shift is the one to go for, it's going to be easier to sell so will depretiate less and the noise in sport mode is out of this world. In 2 weeks driving I've been flashed from behind and asked to pull over so they can look at her, video'd countless times from behind and people comment all of the time. People even let you in or out of places in a Masa which the salesman told in a Ferrari doesn't happen. Make the move Phills1
regards Nick

 

[bigbob]

I don't think we can state which gearbox is universally better we can only state our experiences. It is for the OP to decide which is best for his purposes, uses and preferences. As for sound, both 4.7 engined cars have it (said it before) and how can you say that an MC shift is an easier sell and will depreciate less?

 

[Tilum]

Tilum feel free to throw information at me!

You may regret saying that Phil LOL. BTW, I've sent you a rather lengthy PM in reply to yours.

 

[dickygrace]

Phills I'm in the same position as you and looking to get an MC Shift GT S. One thing I will forewarn you about (as it slightly underwhelmed me a little - see my thread a page back or so) is the Single Clutch MC Shift box. Like you an Auto is not what I want so I've only been looking at MC's. The only other automated manual I had to compare the MC Shift against was the M3 E92 DCT and unfortunately it just isn't in the same league. I haven't driven the E46 SMG like you so can't comment on that box but apparently that's kind if on par with the MC Shift.

Either way for me it's not a deal breaker. I want a Maserati for the prestige, looks and above all else the SOUND!! Wait until you hear the roar, crackle and pop of the MC Shift with the Sport button turned on. Literally nothing else out there like it!

I don't think we can state which gearbox is universally better we can only state our experiences. It is for the OP to decide which is best for his purposes, uses and preferences. As for sound, both 4.7 engined cars have it (how often do I have to say it?) and how on earth can you purport to say that an MC shift is an easier sell and will depreciate less?

I agree with this and if I were looking for one for myself I'd buy a 2012 auto with new software. I get more requests for autos than MC shifts so I wouldn't have thought an MC would be easier to sell down the line. The MC noise can also become a little tedious after a few weeks. Other than the jerky drive when cold, I love the MC shift but auto is best of both worlds for me. Go and drive both, make sure the auto has the latest software and see for yourself.

 

[rd993]

Just to add to bigbob's comment on the 4.7 Auto, it is definitely worth trying it in sports mode before ruling it out.

I tried both before purchase and liked them both. However, if you have to reverse park into a tight space every day, you may have issues with the MC Shift - it is doable but very jerky and takes a bit more time and effort. This may not be an issue for you but is for me...

The gearbox software in the 4.7 Auto is very different to the 4.2 Auto. In sports mode manual, I cannot imagine needing a faster shift unless I was on the track (again this may be a factor for you). Personally I tend to drive in sports mode in manual (normally) or auto (if in traffic).

As others have said, try them both as they are both great - the Auto just suited me better.

 

[Felonious Crud]

MC jerkiness can be fixed by pressing the throttle slowly down a few times before starting. If you don't do that it's a bloody nightmare and any kind of delicate manoeuvring is perilous. If you do perform the magic throttle press trick then it's perfectly fine.

 

[dickygrace]

MC jerkiness can be fixed by pressing the throttle slowly down a few times before starting. If you don't do that it's a bloody nightmare and any kind of delicate manoeuvring is perilous. If you do perform the magic throttle press trick then it's perfectly fine.

I know the procedure but let's be honest, bit of a pain every time you start the car.

 

[Tilum]

I tried both before purchase and liked them both. However, if you have to reverse park into a tight space every day, you may have issues with the MC Shift - it is doable but very jerky and takes a bit more time and effort. This may not be an issue for you but is for me...

The gearbox software in the 4.7 Auto is very different to the 4.2 Auto. In sports mode manual, I cannot imagine needing a faster shift unless I was on the track (again this may be a factor for you). Personally I tend to drive in sports mode in manual (normally) or auto (if in traffic).

EXACTLY that! Well described rd993. 'MC Auto Shift' completely transforms the car, c/w the base 4.2 Auto.

It now includes the following:-
'MC Start Strategy' (aka launch control) - active when in Auto-Sport mode with MSP (traction control) off.
'The Gear keeper' - active when in Manual-Sport mode, meaning the car stays in gear even when reaching Red Line! This is great, as it encourage you to change gear yourself, in the same way that a Manual gearbox does. This gave me back the driver-car interaction I was missing when I had my base GT. Yes it's not as rewarding as a heeling and toeing in a traditional manual transmission (with a pedal clutch), but it allows you to engage with the car more. In the base GT I used to take it to Red Line and it would just change for you, so you go what's the point in the paddles then?!?
RPM indicator - A digital display right in the centre of the instrument panel, just above where it says what gear you're in. On the very latest versions it now includes an up-shift indicator (tiny little green arrow) to signal when it is recommended to change up a gear if you wanted to drive economically. You can ofc choose to ignore that if you like LOL.
Down-shift double declutch - In both Sport modes (Manual or Auto) the transmission perform double de-clutch down shifts resulting in faster gear changes.

Cars with the MC Auto Shift transmission also get the longer 'Maserati Active Shifting' 'Trofeo design' gear-shift paddles as standard, which really made a massive difference to me as well. As when I was going round a bend in my old base GT, I couldn't change gear as my fingers would not be able to reach the short paddles (which are fixed to the steering column, and hence don't rotate with the steering wheel.).

The new Auto really does transform the car. It gives you the best of both worlds - smooth gear changes like a traditional Auto and faster changes like an sequential automated manual gearbox. Although it's different technology, in reality the net result is it 'behaves' similarly to a dual clutch gearbox. I've driven Porsche's latest gen PDK and BMW's latest gen DCT, and the MC Auto Shift responds and behaves in a similar manner (albeit just uses a different method to get there).

But as others have said. Best thing to do is test drive them and see what you prefer. Hope that helps.

T

 

[Tilum]

I agree with this and if I were looking for one for myself I'd buy a 2012 auto with new software. I get more requests for autos than MC shifts so I wouldn't have thought an MC would be easier to sell down the line.

That's interesting to hear, especially from an 'indy' in the trade.
I suspected that might have been the case with the latest gen GTs (which have MC Auto Shift as standard), but wasn't sure what the thoughts were on earlier cars (the majority of which have the automated manual MC Shft, as that was one of Maserati's key selling points at the time (in response to the standard Auto being slow and unresponsive).

P.S. I know you probably know all the above Richard, just mentioning it for the benefit of others on here LOL.

T

 

[bigbob]

Just to add to bigbob's comment on the 4.7 Auto, it is definitely worth trying it in sports mode before ruling it out.

I tried both before purchase and liked them both. However, if you have to reverse park into a tight space every day, you may have issues with the MC Shift - it is doable but very jerky and takes a bit more time and effort. This may not be an issue for you but is for me...

The gearbox software in the 4.7 Auto is very different to the 4.2 Auto. In sports mode manual, I cannot imagine needing a faster shift unless I was on the track (again this may be a factor for you). Personally I tend to drive in sports mode in manual (normally) or auto (if in traffic).

As others have said, try them both as they are both great - the Auto just suited me better.

Put better than I did!

 

[bigbob]

EXACTLY that! Well described rd993. 'MC Auto Shift' completely transforms the car, c/w the base 4.2 Auto.

It now includes the following:-
'MC Start Strategy' (aka launch control) - active when in Auto-Sport mode with MSP (traction control) off.
'The Gear keeper' - active when in Manual-Sport mode, meaning the car stays in gear even when reaching Red Line! This is great, as it encourage you to change gear yourself, in the same way that a Manual gearbox does. This gave me back the driver-car interaction I was missing when I had my base GT. Yes it's not as rewarding as a heeling and toeing in a traditional manual transmission (with a pedal clutch), but it allows you to engage with the car more. In the base GT I used to take it to Red Line and it would just change for you, so you go what's the point in the paddles then?!?
RPM indicator - A digital display right in the centre of the instrument panel, just above where it says what gear you're in. On the very latest versions it now includes an up-shift indicator (tiny little green arrow) to signal when it is recommended to change up a gear if you wanted to drive economically. You can ofc choose to ignore that if you like LOL.
Down-shift double declutch - In both Sport modes (Manual or Auto) the transmission perform double de-clutch down shifts resulting in faster gear changes.

Cars with the MC Auto Shift transmission also get the longer 'Maserati Active Shifting' 'Trofeo design' gear-shift paddles as standard, which really made a massive difference to me as well. As when I was going round a bend in my old base GT, I couldn't change gear as my fingers would not be able to reach the short paddles (which are fixed to the steering column, and hence don't rotate with the steering wheel.).

The new Auto really does transform the car. It gives you the best of both worlds - smooth gear changes like a traditional Auto and faster changes like an sequential automated manual gearbox. Although it's different technology, in reality the net result is it 'behaves' similarly to a dual clutch gearbox. I've driven Porsche's latest gen PDK and BMW's latest gen DCT, and the MC Auto Shift responds and behaves in a similar manner (albeit just uses a different method to get there).

But as others have said. Best thing to do is test drive them and see what you prefer. Hope that helps.

T

You cannot compare a revised MC Auto with the 4.2. I keep saying how different the auto box in the 4.7 is to the 4.2. I encourage anyone to look further into this before buying.

 

[bigbob]

That's interesting to hear, especially from an 'indy' in the trade.
I suspected that might have been the case with the latest gen GTs (which have MC Auto Shift as standard), but wasn't sure what the thoughts were on earlier cars (the majority of which have the automated manual MC Shft, as that was one of Maserati's key selling points at the time (in response to the standard Auto being slow and unresponsive).

P.S. I know you probably know all the above Richard, just mentioning it for the benefit of others on here LOL.

T

....but you keep comparing to the 4.2 not the 4.7 auto.

 

[Felonious Crud]

I know the procedure but let's be honest, bit of a pain every time you start the car.

I'm alright with it, Dicky. Must have got used to it. Or perhaps I just find my car quite charming! Perhaps it adds to the feeling of every journey being an "event".

 

[Tilum]

You cannot compare a revised MC Auto with the 4.2. I keep saying how different the auto box in the 4.7 is to the 4.2. I encourage anyone to look further into this before buying.

You're right Bob (to a certain extent - please don't shoot me for saying that before reading on LOL).
I must admit it can be frustrating when people aren't making fair comparisons, and at first glance it might appear that I too may be guilty of that. However, there are methods in my madness (I think! LOL)!...

One of the reasons I'm using the base 4.2 (std. Auto) in my examples is because that is the car used to own (and I wouldn't want to incorrectly give someone the impression I previously owned the 4.7 Auto).

Another reason is because I'm trying to keep things as simple as I can, so as not to confuse the OP (or anyone else) more than necessary.
Because believe me the whole transmission, engine, brake,... differences from variant to variant are even more complicated than previously described!
(Hence I've tried to my posts factually correct, but still not overcomplicating things (for the OP) unneccesarily.)
I don't believe the transmission (inc. s/w), etc. in the GranTurismo 'S' with Auto transmission is the same as that in the GranTurismo Sport with Auto transmission or GranCabrio MC (which is Auto only anyway).
And obviously it's not the same as in the GranTurismo S or GranTurismo Sport with with MC Shift transmission.
(IIRC) Maserati made several tweaks and changes to the 4.7 GTS Auto for the GT Sport. I'll try and dig out all the original Maserati documentation and follow it up in another post...

Believe it or not, Maserati even change things even within model variants! For instance my new GC MC is different to the GC MC I bought last year, despite them being the same model/variant and only being built about c. 6 months apart!

Hope that helps to understand things a bit (for now at least). More to follow... (just trying to fit this around getting on with more important things that I should be getting on with LOL)...

T

 

[Felonious Crud]

Believe it or not, Maserati even change things even within model variants! For instance my new GC MC is different to the GC MC I bought last year, despite them being the same model/variant and only being built about c. 6 months apart!
T

Hi T. That's interesting. What was different?

 

[bigbob]

You're right Bob (to a certain extent - please don't shoot me for saying that before reading on LOL).
I must admit it can be frustrating when people aren't making fair comparisons, and at first glance it might appear that I too may be guilty of that. However, there are methods in my madness (I think! LOL)!...

One of the reasons I'm using the base 4.2 (std. Auto) in my examples is because that is the car used to own (and I wouldn't want to incorrectly give someone the impression I previously owned the 4.7 Auto).

Another reason is because I'm trying to keep things as simple as I can, so as not to confuse the OP (or anyone else) more than necessary.
Because believe me the whole transmission, engine, brake,... differences from variant to variant are even more complicated than previously described!
(Hence I've tried to my posts factually correct, but still not overcomplicating things (for the OP) unneccesarily.)
I don't believe the transmission (inc. s/w), etc. in the GranTurismo 'S' with Auto transmission is the same as that in the GranTurismo Sport with Auto transmission or GranCabrio MC (which is Auto only anyway).
And obviously it's not the same as in the GranTurismo S or GranTurismo Sport with with MC Shift transmission.
(IIRC) Maserati made several tweaks and changes to the 4.7 GTS Auto for the GT Sport. I'll try and dig out all the original Maserati documentation and follow it up in another post...

Believe it or not, Maserati even change things even within model variants! For instance my new GC MC is different to the GC MC I bought last year, despite them being the same model/variant and only being built about c. 6 months apart!

Hope that helps to understand things a bit (for now at least). More to follow... (just trying to fit this around getting on with more important things that I should be getting on with LOL)...

T

No problems at all mate. Maserati are prone to making many changes often intra model year. For example they changed the front armrest around March 2011 production. Small I know but it helps age cars. Ditto late 2010 they made the speaker covers self coloured etc etc.

My understanding is that the autobox on the 4.7 is the same in normal and ice mode throughout production, the only changes been in sport mode. Thing is a 2011 or 2012MY car can have that if the owner paid for it (the Sport Pack) prior to it arriving on the 2013MY facelift car as standard fit.

The trouble is hardly anyone has driven many of these cars over a long enough distance to compare things. The key thing - hopefully - is that we are all happy with our cars.

 

[FF1078]

I don't think we can state which gearbox is universally better we can only state our experiences. It is for the OP to decide which is best for his purposes, uses and preferences. As for sound, both 4.7 engined cars have it (said it before) and how can you say that an MC shift is an easier sell and will depreciate less?

The MC fetches a premium now so I would think that will stay the same for the duration unless as in the newer Sport auto things get a lot better for the auto.

 

[Felonious Crud]

The key thing - hopefully - is that we are all happy with our cars.

I bloody LOVE mine, BB. It rocks. Gives me real joy. Maserati makes cars that make you happy. The Pharrell WIlliams of the automotive world, perhaps.