Ghibli diesel test drive in Autocar last week

[Rags]

....and here's my two cents; go and actually see one and then actually drive one, until then you are arguing from a point of weakness. I've done both and thoroughly enjoyed the experience. You can't expand the range until you can afford to do so and the Ghibli gives them the chance to do so. Sure, every company wants to turn out a car like the Alfieri but you have to be able to afford it and Maserati, at the moment, can ill afford to do so. It's all well and good giving an opinion as to what, in a perfect world, you would like to be done but it takes money and the Ghibli gives them the chance to get the money. Please, pretty please with sugar on top, drive the ______ thing before you pass negative comments on what Maserati are trying to do. Until that time you are ill qualified to pass comment. Remember, they need our support.

Not entirely a fair reply BennyD. Are you telling me that you have only ever expressed an opinion about a car after seeing it in the flesh and after driving it? Or is it just that I am being negative about a Maserati?

I never said it drives poorly. I just commented on what it looks like in pictures. Maybe it looks better in the flesh as some have commented. I have however seen and sat in the new QP. I even saw one yesterday on the road. My brother in law was so disappointed and underwhelmed driving it that he ordered a brand new QP 5 (a few were still lying around) rather than the new one - and that was to replace another but older QP5 he already had.

I also get that they need to make money. But what, in my opinion, would have been a better way to go about that would have been to firstly sort out the lust after part of their product set (new GT and cheaper sports cars etc) before they launched cars like the Ghibli. If they are going to make money by selling 50,000 or more cars a year, they will only do so by being able to charge a substantial premium over their direct mainstream volume competitors like BMW, Mercedes etc on like for like cars. For that they need to establish a brand that is premium based on a desirable high end sports car product set which Maserati have yet to sort out. They have launched the Ghibli diesel for example bang in the middle of 535d / 530d territory. I would love to see what the servicing and parts costs are for the Ghibli in comparison to the BMW.

This forum is full of people who love the brand. But Maserati lovers and forum members will be a miniscule proportion of the people that actually buy the Ghibli new. At the moment I would wager that most members of the public wouldnt have a clue about Maseratis current product set or even what the cars look like. Thats the main problem - when you dont even know what the high end product set is, why would you lust after their products like the Ghibli?

 

[Rags]

And at the moment Fiats strategy just seems weird. Im not a motor industry expert (by a long shot!) but to me it seems like what they are actually doing to Alfa is what they should be doing to Maserati and vice versa.

 

[Rwc13]

I'm a long standing petrolhead, a business consultant, and I'd like to think I know a bit about cars and the car market generally. But I'm a complete amateur compared to the car manufacturers, the market researchers, and the industry consultants who will no doubt have worked with Fiat/Maserati to develop its strategy. So, whatever views I personally hold, I am not about to suggest that I know better than them how to make a long terms success of the Maserati brand.

Not everybody is going to like the new products because they are a move away from traditional Maserati territory. In the same way, the Cayenne and Panamera were a move away from their sports cars for Porsche. That move was greeted with scepticism and some hostility by the Porsche faithful, but has undoubtedly been a huge success commercially, and has permitted the continued development of the sports car products alongside the new lines. And I know many long term Porsche sports car owners than know have a Cayenne or Panamera as a daily driver.

Whatever our personal views on the new products, I think we should trust that Maserati's strategy is likely to have been thoroughly considered and researched by people far more expert than us, and will have taken account of the current product line and what they could afford to do strategically right now and longer term by way of new product development.

And I don't think what Ian said was unfair. He didn't suggest that he or any of us don't sometimes form initial impressions that may prove to be unfair on better acquaintance. He just suggested that judgement may be better reserved until the in the flesh experience has been experienced.

 

[CatmanV2]

I'm a long standing petrolhead, a business consultant, and I'd like to think I know a bit about cars and the car market generally. But I'm a complete amateur compared to the car manufacturers, the market researchers, and the industry consultants who will no doubt have worked with Fiat/Maserati to develop its strategy. So, whatever views I personally hold, I am not about to suggest that I know better than them how to make a long terms success of the Maserati brand..

The sweet smell of common sense

C

 

[Contigo]

To be fair though the experts from time to time do get it catastrophically wrong.

 

[Rags]

Not everybody is going to like the new products because they are a move away from traditional Maserati territory. In the same way, the Cayenne and Panamera were a move away from their sports cars for Porsche. That move was greeted with scepticism and some hostility by the Porsche faithful, but has undoubtedly been a huge success commercially, and has permitted the continued development of the sports car products alongside the new lines. And I know many long term Porsche sports car owners than know have a Cayenne or Panamera as a daily driver.

I never said that they shouldn't move away from their traditional products. I think they need to. But to me the order is wrong. Anyway, hopefully the Fiat consultants have got it more right this time than they have in the past. I would love it if they succeed - I want them to continue to build lovely GT's and other sports cars etc and have more money to pump into them.

And moving away from traditional products has got nothing to do with my opinions of the Ghibli. I just dont like it as much as maybe you, BennyD and others.

I bought the Granturismo not because I thought it was better drivers car than say a 911 or R8 etc. It isn't. I bought it because it looks awesome and much more exotic (in the flesh as well a in pics) than most of the competition, makes me feel special every time I drive it and is exclusive and different. Looking at the pictures of the Ghibli, I cant say that about it both from and exterior and interior perspective. As I said earlier it wouldn't bat an eyelid if it had a Lexus or Nissan Infiniti badge on it - that even applies to the interior. I however do take both of your points around seeing the Ghibli in the flesh and I will do that next time I am at Maranello which should be in two weeks time approximately (assuming they have one). Maybe like others I will also come out on the more positive side.

 

[Rags]

Here are pics of an Infiniti model

 

[Contigo]

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...al-but-it-wasnt-a-longterm-thing-9278242.html

 

[Rags]

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...al-but-it-wasnt-a-longterm-thing-9278242.html

I promise you I hadnt read that article beforehand. It even mentions Infiniti...

 

[Rwc13]

I have seen both in the flesh. There is a world of difference in the flesh, both outside and inside. But you have to see it and touch it and drive it to form an informed view IMHO. I will be interested to hear your views in a few weeks when you have done so.

I have had a few GTSs as well as QPs and GSs so I certainly appreciate their looks and qualities as traditional Maseratis.

 

[CatmanV2]

To be fair though the experts from time to time do get it catastrophically wrong.

Indeed they do

C

 

[Rags]

I have seen both in the flesh. There is a world of difference in the flesh, both outside and inside. But you have to see it and touch it and drive it to form an informed view IMHO. I will be interested to hear your views in a few weeks when you have done so.

Fair enough. I will report back after having a poke around in one.

 

[safrane]

Interesting to read the views on the new models...poles apart so clearly a car that divides options.

I have seen the new Gib's and heard it running and followed Bowkers demo for a while on the road...sadly my lasting impressions was not favorable on the oil burner...anything that has a speaker to mask its true identity is just fake in my eyes...would have prefered to hear the true sound not a sound track the vehicle lip-sincs to.

Hope the petrol does better.

 

[Rwc13]

Whether you like the sound or not is clearly a matter of personal opinion.

However, I'm not sure I get this fake point. The sound actuators take sounds from the Ghibli's own diesel engine and amplify the best ones.

In the same way, the sound coming out of any exhaust is not the actual sound of the engine, it is the sound of the engine as altered by the exhaust pipework. An exhaust can make that louder or quieter or change it tonally. I don't fundamentally see a lot of difference between altering the noise of your car by tweaking the exhaust or doing it electronically, as long as it is the cars own engine sound that you are tweaking.

However, I would take exception if Maserati were sampling sounds from a V8 engine and playing them from the Ghibli.

 

[Rags]

Whether you like the sound or not is clearly a matter of personal opinion.

However, I'm not sure I get this fake point. The sound actuators take sounds from the Ghibli's own diesel engine and amplify the best ones.

In the same way, the sound coming out of any exhaust is not the actual sound of the engine, it is the sound of the engine as altered by the exhaust pipework. An exhaust can make that louder or quieter or change it tonally. I don't fundamentally see a lot of difference between altering the noise of your car by tweaking the exhaust or doing it electronically, as long as it is the cars own engine sound that you are tweaking.

However, I would take exception if Maserati were sampling sounds from a V8 engine and playing them from the Ghibli.

Apart from your car sounding different on the outside than it does inside with the windows up? If thats the case here thats a fairly fundamental difference wouldnt you say?

Either way, not much you can do with a diesel sound. Even the best ones sound naff. At least Maserati are trying which is fair enough.

 

[Parisien]

Moot point...but each to their own......

P

 

[Contigo]

The Sound actuators near the exhaust make a V8 Hemi type sound. Apparently in Sport mode they are louder

 

[safrane]

Apart from your car sounding different on the outside than it does inside with the windows up? If thats the case here thats a fairly fundamental difference wouldnt you say?

Either way, not much you can do with a diesel sound. Even the best ones sound naff. At least Maserati are trying which is fair enough.

And that it sounds like a diesel from the front, but the sound at the rear is subsidised by a boom-box in the boot floor...that's fake, I would rather hear an engineered sound than an electronic one...maybe we should wear head phones and listen to a V12 Ferrari and close our eyes and pretend.

 

[Contigo]

This is nthing new though, BMW even pipe the sound of the engine in through speakers in the cabin on the current M5.

 

[Parisien]

But at least it's M5's own sound even if enhanced on the way

P