Did you know?

[Blondie]

Just had a huge shock. I bought a little A Class for my short one and it was registered until 31 March 2015. Just had its first MOT but as I had not received the new the V5 certificate, I called Swansea so I could pay for the road tax.
I was very politely informed that I have been driving an untaxed car since the day I bought it!!!!!
Apparently, last October, the government, in their infinite wisdom, have changed the tax system so that, when you buy a used car, the remaining tax is refunded to the previous owner and the new owner must tax the vehicle immediately.
I asked whether the DVLA had actually informed anyone of this change and was told they had done an extensive advertising/marketing campaign last year.
Am I the only one who didn't know about it? Obviously the previous owner didn't know because he said the car was taxed until the end of March.

 

[BennyD]

That's the DVLA for you! It was advertised but I, for one, didn't know when it was effective from. I guess we now know! BTW, you don't need to display a tax disc these days.

 

[allandwf]

I knew, as I have bought and sold three cars since it came in. The new owner must tax it starting from the month they buy it, and the old owner gets a refund from the month after it changes hands, so DVLA get an extra two months tax!! A total con.

 

[drewf]

It's a very poor system now - when they say 'immediately', they mean immediately. So, if you buy a second hand car on Sunday and intend driving it home, then you need to tax it on Sunday before driving it on the road. Obviously the Post Offices are closed, so you need to have a phone with you, and possibly a computer to tax the vehicle. It makes no sense at all, as the seller has already paid tax to the end of the month - they only receive a refund for whole unused months.

 

[FF1078]

I knew
It's a money making thing for the goverment
Me the owner has taxed the vehicle and I sell it to you today so I've paid road tax on it until 31st March.
You buy the car off me today and you have to tax it from the 1st march to drive it and I only get a refund for whole months so the DVLA(goverment) are getting 1 more months tax off every sold car
Rip off Britain!!

 

[Contigo]

The only advantage for us is that if we sell a car we get to refund on the tax if it is still to run. For the purchaser it could mean them losing nearly a full month if they buy the car at the end of the month, of course there is only one winner and that is DVLA as they get TWO LOTS OF TAX FOR THE SAME MONTH PERIOD WHEN A CAR IS TRANSFERRED!!!!

 

[BennyD]

I reckon there is a legal argument that says if the tax is paid for that vehicle to be on the road to the end of that month then it's ok to drive it to the end of the month before renewing. Someone will take it to court one day.

 

[Contigo]

We sold our Mini recently and it didn't occur to me to ask the new owner to make sure they taxed it simply because I forgot that the new rule was in effect. I bet there are a lot of new cars out there running about untaxed because the new owners fail to tax it online.

 

[drewf]

I reckon there is a legal argument that says if the tax is paid for that vehicle to be on the road to the end of that month then it's ok to drive it to the end of the month before renewing. Someone will take it to court one day.

I doubt it - the guidelines are pretty clear about the need for the new owner to tax it, as the previous owner's entitlement ceases the moment they sell it. It's a scam, basically.

 

[allandwf]

They still show as taxed on the system until the DVLA get the paperwork through, assuming they are actually taxed in the first place.

 

[BennyD]

If they refunded the tax pro-rata to the date of sale, I would agree with you but they don't and they don't charge you pro-rata from the date of purchase so the vehicle is being charged twice to be on the road and that isn't correct. Just because the DVLA says that's the way it is doesn't mean it is legally correct. Mark my words, someone will challenge this in court.

 

[Blondie]

Just received a phone call from the DVLA requesting payment for the month of February (bought it on the 21st of Feb) as I had been driving it during that month. Leaves a bad taste. I'm expecting a fine next.....

 

[Contigo]

For once I agree with Benny (hopefully for the last time this year!), someone or some company will challenge the DVLA and a new precedent will be set meaning the DVLA have to change the rules to refund the tax pro-rata and allow the new owner to tax pr0-rata which will ultimately cost them more to administrate and thus invalidate any gains they make, WIN WIN

 

[drewf]

It's not the DVLA who make the rules - it's an Act of Parliament, specifically the Finance Act 2014. Good luck with challenging it...


Section 91 and Schedule 19 of the Finance Act 2014 abolish the administrative
arrangements surrounding paper discs, the changes to the rules on display were made in
secondary legislation, the Vehicle Excise and Registration (Consequential Amendments)
Regulations 2014 (SI 2014/2358).

There are a few areas where concerns have been expressed about the change, such as the
abolition of the 14-day ‘grace period’ for registration; detecting offences of non-taxation; the
effect on motor traders; and the effect on those with a disability who rely on their nil-rated tax
disc for parking concessions.

Firstly, the 14 day ‘grace period’: it is currently the case under section 33 of the Vehicle
Excise and Registration Act 1994, as amended, that it is an offence not to display a tax disc
on a vehicle. Under section 33A that offence does not apply during a 14-day ‘grace period’
upon first registration, change or keeper or renewal.

Both the section 33 offence and the section 33A mitigation or ‘grace period’ are abolished
from 1 October alongside the tax disc. However, the fact that the disc is being abolished
does not affect the wider duty to hold a vehicle excise licence (car tax) on a vehicle. It is an
offence under sections 29 and 31A of the 1994 Act to drive or keep a vehicle that is not taxed
(unless it is registered as off-road or is an exempt vehicle). To that end, the 2014 Act also
abolishes the transfer of vehicle licences/tax so that, in the absence of paper licences there
is no danger of someone inadvertently driving an unlicensed/taxed vehicle: it will be clear
that if you own the car you personally have to take out the tax

It wouldn't be so bad if they had kept the grace period, but having also removed that it's clear it's a money grabbing scheme. And naturally there are fines if you are caught.

 

[allandwf]

Just received a phone call from the DVLA requesting payment for the month of February (bought it on the 21st of Feb) as I had been driving it during that month. Leaves a bad taste. I'm expecting a fine next.....

Just tell them you didn't drive it

 

[BennyD]

Both the section 33 offence and the section 33A mitigation or ‘grace period’ are abolished
from 1 October alongside the tax disc. However, the fact that the disc is being abolished
does not affect the wider duty to hold a vehicle excise licence (car tax) on a vehicle. It is an offence under sections 29 and 31A of the 1994 Act to drive or keep a vehicle that is not taxed (unless it is registered as off-road or is an exempt vehicle). To that end, the 2014 Act also abolishes the transfer of vehicle licences/tax so that, in the absence of paper licences there is no danger of someone inadvertently driving an unlicensed/taxed vehicle: it will be clear that if you own the car you personally have to take out the tax.

And there it is. If the road tax isn't refunded to the seller until end of the month then there still is current tax on the vehicle, so if there is tax valid on the vehicle at the time of sale it is still valid to the end of the month of sale. Also as the road tax hasn't been transferred, it's still valid according to the about passage. Also, it doesn't say there should be two road taxes current for the vehicle as there may well be.

 

[drewf]

No mate, there isn't any tax once it's sold. The paragraph above states that the 2014 Act abolishes transfer of vehicle licences/tax, and clearly states that if you own the car you personally have to take out the tax.

So, it doesn't matter when the refund of the previous tax is made; the Act declares it void to the end of the month, so there aren't two road taxes current.


We motorists are easy targets, once again... Over. A. Barrel.

 

[BennyD]

That's the legal argument; despite what it says there, tax has been paid for the vehicle if it hasn't been refunded. Also, the tax hasn't been transferred from the vehicle so, again, it can be argued that it is still valid. Once you get to the end of the month then obviously you have to tax the vehicle as the previous tax paid on the vehicle has been refunded. As far as I am aware, it's the vehicle that's being taxed not the driver so the tax hasn't been transferred from the vehicle, only the ownership has changed hands. I know what they are trying to say, all I'm trying to say is that there appear to be grounds for an appeal.

 

[allandwf]

Surely the new owner taxes it on the day of purchase, old owner sends V5 off, so until they recieve it through the mail, two taxes must be concurrent, or is it done automatically when system see a new request for tax, for the ready taxed vehicle. ( If that makes sense!)

 

[drewf]

I take your point Ben, but can't see that any appeal would be successful, or even allowed to proceed.

An analogy might be as follows: if a driver purchases a 1 hour parking ticket from a machine, then leaves the carpark after 45 minutes, and another car then parks in the vacated bay, the first driver will not receive a refund for that overpaid ticket, nor will driver #2 be able to make use of it. Driver #2 has to buy a new ticket from the moment they arrive, and the carpark operator receives double payment for that time period.

The Act looks pretty tight to me - they've covered off the 'tax paid but not refunded' angle by saying it's forfeited at the moment of sale.