Car stolen
- Thread starter ps1
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ps1
Junior Member
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Dear all,
Can i pick everyone's brains for more advise please!
I have picked up the car from the pound. She is looking untouched. No damage inside or out. Only 6 miles on the clock since theft - distance from fulham where stolen to streatham where left in residential road. Even left documents and service book in boot!
Insurance have said that they will need to do a field check to confirm all ok with the car and then they will wipe claim. Will not appear on HPI check in the future.
So current issues:
1. Thieves didn't leave stolen key unfortunately! So I need to think of getting car secured again. I have spare key and keycode card. I have Keycare cover (separate from insurance). My insurance will not cover key/lock replacement without using excess and losing no claims bonus. Keycare have said that because i didn't report the car stolen to them, and the period is now over 30 days (although insurance and police informed) they will not cover the cost of locks. I suggested that i didn't think i would need new locks as car was gone, and that recovery of vehicle should be logged as notifying date of their services being required, but they disagree.
Is there any grounds for appeal to keycare despite it clearly stating in policy re 30 day period for notifying re theft/loss?
2. If i'm footing the bill for getting car secured what is my best and most economical option? I have been told that the locks don't need to be changed, but the existing spare key i have can be reprogrammed, but this i presume means that the thief can still get into the car although alarm will go off, and car should not start? I have been quoted £90 + VAT per lock - so 4 locks (ignition, doors, boot).
3. I think i'm going to look into a tracker for the car in view of recent experiences. Does anyone have any opinion regarding trackers, or any other security measures i should look into? Will it lower insurance?
Again thanks so much for all advise. Greatly appreciated.
P
Can i pick everyone's brains for more advise please!
I have picked up the car from the pound. She is looking untouched. No damage inside or out. Only 6 miles on the clock since theft - distance from fulham where stolen to streatham where left in residential road. Even left documents and service book in boot!
Insurance have said that they will need to do a field check to confirm all ok with the car and then they will wipe claim. Will not appear on HPI check in the future.
So current issues:
1. Thieves didn't leave stolen key unfortunately! So I need to think of getting car secured again. I have spare key and keycode card. I have Keycare cover (separate from insurance). My insurance will not cover key/lock replacement without using excess and losing no claims bonus. Keycare have said that because i didn't report the car stolen to them, and the period is now over 30 days (although insurance and police informed) they will not cover the cost of locks. I suggested that i didn't think i would need new locks as car was gone, and that recovery of vehicle should be logged as notifying date of their services being required, but they disagree.
Is there any grounds for appeal to keycare despite it clearly stating in policy re 30 day period for notifying re theft/loss?
2. If i'm footing the bill for getting car secured what is my best and most economical option? I have been told that the locks don't need to be changed, but the existing spare key i have can be reprogrammed, but this i presume means that the thief can still get into the car although alarm will go off, and car should not start? I have been quoted £90 + VAT per lock - so 4 locks (ignition, doors, boot).
3. I think i'm going to look into a tracker for the car in view of recent experiences. Does anyone have any opinion regarding trackers, or any other security measures i should look into? Will it lower insurance?
Again thanks so much for all advise. Greatly appreciated.
P
Needamaser
Member
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Point 1.
"if" this cover is basically an insurance policy (and it sounds as if it is) then it falls within remit of the Financial Conduct Authority and the "seller" must have a stated complaints policy.
Effectively contact them and tell them you are not happy with their decision and you wish to log a complaint on grounds you have stated.
They have a period to investigate the complaint (it will be detailed in their terms of business the timescale..possibly 8 weeks) and then issue a "final decision".
If the final decision is not satisfactory to you, you then have the ability to pass the complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service.
They will investigate and costs you nothing but if find in your favour the firm will have to pay out.
Biggest hassle you have is the time it will take but if they do not agree to back down when you make a complaint (and they may very well do so if you point out you intend going to the Ombudsman if necessary) you just have to wait sadly.
I think you have a strong case in that it wasn't simply keys stolen it was the vehicle and Insurance company had given up on recovery and were settling with you when can turned up.
Good luck.
"if" this cover is basically an insurance policy (and it sounds as if it is) then it falls within remit of the Financial Conduct Authority and the "seller" must have a stated complaints policy.
Effectively contact them and tell them you are not happy with their decision and you wish to log a complaint on grounds you have stated.
They have a period to investigate the complaint (it will be detailed in their terms of business the timescale..possibly 8 weeks) and then issue a "final decision".
If the final decision is not satisfactory to you, you then have the ability to pass the complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service.
They will investigate and costs you nothing but if find in your favour the firm will have to pay out.
Biggest hassle you have is the time it will take but if they do not agree to back down when you make a complaint (and they may very well do so if you point out you intend going to the Ombudsman if necessary) you just have to wait sadly.
I think you have a strong case in that it wasn't simply keys stolen it was the vehicle and Insurance company had given up on recovery and were settling with you when can turned up.
Good luck.
CatmanV2
Member
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I don't *think* you have much of a chance with the key people 
In terms of security. The alarm and immobilisers and door locks are separate systems.
They have a physical key so unless you change the locks they will be able to access the car
I think there's a process to unpair key fobs from the remote central locking so they won't be able to turn the alarm off
There is *definitely* a process to have old keys removed from the immobiliser / ECU
So
The only way to completely secure it would be to have new locks fitted. At a guess that's going to include a new alarm ECU as well.
If you can live with someone being able to get into your car, but doing very little else, you just need to (maybe) buy another key and pay a dealer for an hour.
Make sense?
C
In terms of security. The alarm and immobilisers and door locks are separate systems.
They have a physical key so unless you change the locks they will be able to access the car
I think there's a process to unpair key fobs from the remote central locking so they won't be able to turn the alarm off
There is *definitely* a process to have old keys removed from the immobiliser / ECU
So
The only way to completely secure it would be to have new locks fitted. At a guess that's going to include a new alarm ECU as well.
If you can live with someone being able to get into your car, but doing very little else, you just need to (maybe) buy another key and pay a dealer for an hour.
Make sense?
C
Contigo
Sponsor
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This is where insurance sucks, nothing about it is helping you at all is it really? Same for me at the moment with my roof incident, car is now off road for at least 3 weeks, I've lost my NCB and I have to pay an Excess plus I have no car replacement as it is classed as a fault claim! All because of some other *****!!!
CatmanV2
Member
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Wack61
Member
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I'd think it very unlikely they'd come back for it with the stolen key if they have the balls to break into your house they're not interested in the contents of your glove box , the car will be alarmed and immobilised so it's going nowhere with that key, rather than paying the best part of £500 to get the locks changed I'd either fit a tracker (SIM card trackers are dirt cheap on eBay) and / or spend the £500 on a better alarm , a disklok is a good investment for £99 or less on eBay , keep the key to it separate , it won't stop them if they have an ignition key but it takes a bit of work to get it off which they won't want to do.
CatmanV2
Member
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Well they aren't going to be able to start it (assuming the code is removed from the car's 'memory')
C
spkennyuk
Member
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As far as the keycare issue goes there are two opposing views as to when the key is deemed to have been lost.
Keycares view is the key was lost when the car was stolen. If they had had been notified at that point then they would have left the claim open until the car was either considered a total loss as it had not been found or paid a claim if the car was recovered minus the key.
Your argument from a key claim perspective is as follows: The car and the key were reported stolen as soon as you were aware of the theft. Police report was raised and as far as the police are concerned the car and key are part of the same item. Key is no good without the car and visa versa. If the car had never been recovered then the payout value of the insurance company would include they keys and and spare keys you had. The insurance company usually ask for all keys back that you have and any documents for the car as if it turned up months or years later the car and contents belong to them.
You can argue that the key was only known to be a total loss at the point the car was recovered minus the key. As you have also said there was no point having a new key done unless the car was recovered and either way the likely hood was that new keys and ecu would be needed to ensure the car was secure incase the key had been copied.
You do have a right of appeal and a carefully worded letter following their complaintw prodecure is your first port of call. Point out that they have 8 weeks to reply to your complaint and that failure by them to reply within that period and resolve your complaint will mean that you will refer the matter to the the financial ombudsman as per your legal right to do so.
Bottom line is they will either review your case and make an offer before it gets to the obudsman or they will hold their current stance and let the ombudsman make a final decison.
Either way it costs you nothing more than a couple of emails.
Any work you do have done in the meantime to secure the car keep receipts for and also remember they will not cover anything that is considered a security upgrade for example better locks than the standard OEM ones.
Im eight weeks into this process with a travel insurance company so if you need any help then feel free to give me a shout.
Something the keycare people are ignoring at the moment is that its illegal to try and claim from two insurance companies for the same item which you would have been had you claimed for the key and also been claiming for missing car and key from your car insurance company.
Keycares view is the key was lost when the car was stolen. If they had had been notified at that point then they would have left the claim open until the car was either considered a total loss as it had not been found or paid a claim if the car was recovered minus the key.
Your argument from a key claim perspective is as follows: The car and the key were reported stolen as soon as you were aware of the theft. Police report was raised and as far as the police are concerned the car and key are part of the same item. Key is no good without the car and visa versa. If the car had never been recovered then the payout value of the insurance company would include they keys and and spare keys you had. The insurance company usually ask for all keys back that you have and any documents for the car as if it turned up months or years later the car and contents belong to them.
You can argue that the key was only known to be a total loss at the point the car was recovered minus the key. As you have also said there was no point having a new key done unless the car was recovered and either way the likely hood was that new keys and ecu would be needed to ensure the car was secure incase the key had been copied.
You do have a right of appeal and a carefully worded letter following their complaintw prodecure is your first port of call. Point out that they have 8 weeks to reply to your complaint and that failure by them to reply within that period and resolve your complaint will mean that you will refer the matter to the the financial ombudsman as per your legal right to do so.
Bottom line is they will either review your case and make an offer before it gets to the obudsman or they will hold their current stance and let the ombudsman make a final decison.
Either way it costs you nothing more than a couple of emails.
Any work you do have done in the meantime to secure the car keep receipts for and also remember they will not cover anything that is considered a security upgrade for example better locks than the standard OEM ones.
Im eight weeks into this process with a travel insurance company so if you need any help then feel free to give me a shout.
Something the keycare people are ignoring at the moment is that its illegal to try and claim from two insurance companies for the same item which you would have been had you claimed for the key and also been claiming for missing car and key from your car insurance company.
spkennyuk
Member
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Either that or it has been chucked away somewhere near the where the car was found or they have held on to it for potential further use.
dickygrace
www.richardgracecars.co.uk
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I was thinking the same, do you have to have it back?
conaero
Forum Owner
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...or get a set of old keys off David Askew and the immobiliser box.
Swap the immobiliser box and take the transponders out of the salvage keys and replace in your existing keys.
That way the theives will only be able to access the car but not start it rendering the old keys completely useless.
I would have thought DA would want about £300 for the bits.
Swap the immobiliser box and take the transponders out of the salvage keys and replace in your existing keys.
That way the theives will only be able to access the car but not start it rendering the old keys completely useless.
I would have thought DA would want about £300 for the bits.
rockits
Member
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- 9,172
I was just thinking the same thing C. How can the insurance company continue to insure a car they know has been stolen, that the steeler has the key and can return to take the car whenever they want. Surely the premium would need to go up or in a nasty twist they tell the OP to change the locks at his cost or the insurance is void!
I would get a dealer/indy to remove the key from the system, buy another and get a secret kill switch fitted.
This is one the reasons I have started the new iLOK business. We don't need traditional keys now for access or access control for buildings or anything. I wonder when the car industry will catch up. However by providing secure systems and not hackable ones like most keyless systems on cars these days.
Security is very bad in so many ways and is going to get worse it seems before it gets better. I don't think manufacturers, insurance companies or governments are doing enough.