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Zep · Sep 14, 2015

philgarner said:
OK onto doing something about this, or pre-empting this at least.

I've got the GS booked in for some work - what's the line on replacing the bushes? Is it really harmful to press them out and replace with new? And then if it is how does that weigh up with the risk that a perished bush will contribute to cracking?

Got some pics of my bushes if anyone cares to offer an opinion:

http://1drv.ms/1OQDgKx

Phil,

I'd say that they all look about the same as the ones I changed on my car with the small cracks around the exposed rubber. When I chopped them up for a look all of the internal rubber was in one piece.

The difficulty with pressing the bushes out on a press is that it takes about 8 tonnes of pressure to overcome the interference fit. To support the eye of the arm against this force is difficult as there is only a small amount of the eye exposed with the bush in place, if a special tool exists it is likely it is due to this. My solution was to machine off part of the bush allowing more of the eye to be supported. Do this at your own risk.

While they are off a serious clean would be advisable as would a using a crack detection dye which will highlight any small cracks which are already present.

Hope that helps

Zep · Sep 14, 2015

Contigo said:
Tempted to use Polybushes going forward. Certainly make the car handle better.

It would be great if this were the case but because our friends nicked the bush design from the Porsche 911 - inner bearing pressed over and inner sleeve then some rubber and then another sleeve - you can't just change the rubber. In the end what is basically a lot of metal with very little rubber probably has a lot less "give" than a big chunk of polyurethane.

Having said that, what if Superformance could be persuaded to produce the std design with a PU core in place of the existing rubber? Maybe even with stainless construction. Now that would be a good solution....

mchristyuk · Sep 14, 2015

Zep said:
I appreciate that Mark, I was making the point that he was offering a fairly strong hint as to the failure mode which might well be useful going forward.

As you say, we appear to be stuck in a feedback loop, we aren't happy with Maserati's approach to the issue, which could be both more detailed and more sympathetic, but it isn't and unless we can identify through our own means a material defect, that seems to be where this ends. DVSA appear to be sympathetic but are prevented from acting by the engineering conclusions, which would must have some merit as they clearly have some experience in these matters from the email you published. To assume incompetence (as opposed to heartlessness) on the part of Maserati and the DVSA seems like a bit of a leap to me.

What we can be fairly sure of is that there will be some new guidance for testers related to this issue, which is likely to further reduce the incidence of failure beyond what you have already achieved through this thread.

The lesson I am choosing to take is that it is advisable to change the bushes sooner rather than later. Don't get to the point where wear is really obvious and don't wait for an MOT tester or service inspection to find it. This is just my opinion of course.

Zep,

Sorry didn't mean to sound like I was having a rant at you.. I wasn't.. honest

Although I would say the DVSA are incompetent as they've admitted it themselves.. they told us they don't have the skills or time to analyse any of the parts.. therefore I'd say they're not competent at the job they're supposed to be doing

Maserati on the other hand are just calculating.. what is the bare legal minimum we can get away with at the minimum cost and to **** with our customers.

Mark

mchristyuk · Sep 14, 2015

Zep said:
It would be great if this were the case but because our friends nicked the bush design from the Porsche 911 - inner bearing pressed over and inner sleeve then some rubber and then another sleeve - you can't just change the rubber. In the end what is basically a lot of metal with very little rubber probably has a lot less "give" than a big chunk of polyeuthane.

Having said that, what if Superformance could be persuaded to produce the std design with a PU core in place of the existing rubber? Maybe even with stainless construction. Now that would be a good solution....

Ultimately moves are afoot behind the scenes to come up with a proper fix for ALL the wishbones on our cars so we don't have to go through this cr@p ever again. If it's half as successful as the disc group buy then I think we'll have done mighty well!

Mark

miket · Sep 14, 2015

mchristyuk said:
Ultimately moves are afoot behind the scenes to come up with a proper fix for ALL the wishbones on our cars so we don't have to go through this cr@p ever again. If it's half as successful as the disc group buy then I think we'll have done mighty well!

Mark

Bring it on, I'm sure everyone on here will support this route in any way they can!

Zep · Sep 14, 2015

mchristyuk said:
Ultimately moves are afoot behind the scenes to come up with a proper fix for ALL the wishbones on our cars so we don't have to go through this cr@p ever again. If it's half as successful as the disc group buy then I think we'll have done mighty well!

Mark

Amen to that

Zep · Sep 14, 2015

mchristyuk said:
Zep,

Sorry didn't mean to sound like I was having a rant at you.. I wasn't.. honest

Although I would say the DVSA are incompetent as they've admitted it themselves.. they told us they don't have the skills or time to analyse any of the parts.. therefore I'd say they're not competent at the job they're supposed to be doing

Maserati on the other hand are just calculating.. what is the bare legal minimum we can get away with at the minimum cost and to **** with our customers.

Mark

I hear you, I know you weren't.

On the subject of DVSA though, if I thought there was a chance something I said would be taken in evidence, I'd claim to know sod all about it too

Still, if the end result is better components and a big two fingered salute to Maserati then we can all smile!

whereskeith · Sep 14, 2015

Contigo said:
Tempted to use Polybushes going forward. Certainly make the car handle better.

Does anyone actually sell them at the moment ?

allandwf · Sep 14, 2015

If it takes that amount of force, would heating the arms first not help?

Zep · Sep 14, 2015

allandwf said:
If it takes that amount of force, would heating the arms first not help?

They were warmed up with a space heater. When they go it sounds like a shotgun going off, after that it's easy.

miket · Sep 14, 2015

whereskeith said:
Does anyone actually sell them at the moment ?

I'm sure someone posted about availability of poly bushes with stainless steel bodies from down under, but can't seem to find it again!

adam01 · Sep 14, 2015

Zep said:
They were warmed up with a space heater. When they go it sounds like a shotgun going off, after that it's easy.

Heard when fitting new bushes,helps if frozen first ?

Zep · Sep 15, 2015

adam01 said:
Heard when fitting new bushes,helps if frozen first ?

I heard that too, have always frozen parts like this before fitting. These were in the freezer for a week before they went back in. Still tight and needed the press, but nothing like getting them out. I would have gone colder (dry ice) but I didn't want to damage the rubber.

jluis · Sep 15, 2015

Zep said:
I heard that too, have always frozen parts like this before fitting. These were in the freezer for a week before they went back in. Still tight and needed the press, but nothing like getting them out. I would have gone colder (dry ice) but I didn't want to damage the rubber.

They are usualy frozen with liquid nitrogen. At least this is what they do at the factory.
Don't know how they do it in the main dealers but I doubt they have a bottle of nitrogen lying around

CatmanV2 · Sep 15, 2015

jluis said:
They are usualy frozen with liquid nitrogen. At least this is what they do at the factory.
Don't know how they do it in the main dealers but I doubt they have a bottle of nitrogen lying around

Zep probably does!

C

philw696 · Sep 15, 2015

No nitrogen in our workshop just got a good press.
What we don't have on the cars supplied New here is the salt/ rust corrosion issues.

jluis · Sep 15, 2015

philw696 said:
No nitrogen in our workshop just got a good press.
What we don't have on the cars supplied New here is the salt/ rust corrosion issues.

I bought a new volvo 2 years ago and last time I looked underneath I was shocked.
Aluminum dotted with salt marks, greyed out and some sections of the steel chassis already have rust.
Just after 2 years ...

Zep · Sep 15, 2015

CatmanV2 said:
Zep probably does!

C

No - I only have dry nitro knocking around, but I know someone who does.

Frankly I can't imagine anyone using liquid nitrogen in such a way. It's properly nasty stuff, removes body parts if touched and displaces oxygen in unventilated areas when boiling off. There are much safer and cheaper ways of obtaining a similar result, especially when you don't need the full -195 C. Although since global warming was discovered getting a bucket of liquid refrigerant isn't one of them...

deano · Sep 15, 2015

I know some of you but maybe not all of you that have experienced this issue have filled in the appropriate form,but if not please click on the link and take a couple of minutes to do so,the more we submit the better.

https://forms.vosa.gov.uk/Vsdr/create

CatmanV2 · Sep 15, 2015

deano said:
I know some of you but maybe not all of you that have experienced this issue have filled in the appropriate form,but if not please click on the link and take a couple of minutes to do so,the more we submit the better.

https://forms.vosa.gov.uk/Vsdr/create

Done

C

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