Purely as an investment...

[Nayf]

As a Porsche enthusiast, I'd go for a clean sub-50k miles Porsche 996 Turbo.

The GT3 is way beyond the budget as is anything Porsche with tge coveted RS badge.

I know the marque inside out. So I'd not step outside and risk buying a bad example that could be a money-pit. I can spot a money-pit Porsche from a thousand yards and a look at the service book.

Hmm, I’m not so sure about that. In theory it has everything going for it. Indeed, I (ghost) wrote a feature on their investability in an early Modern Classics getting on for seven years ago.

The problem with the 996 Turbo is that, other than in a straight line, it is a a bit inert. I remember getting in it and at the time it was the fastest thing I’d ever driven. I couldn’t believe the acceleration, the hilarious in gear thrust, the ridiculously short time I got from north London to Stevenage (ahem). Frankly, I was in love.

But then, when I started to take on corners - and the experience started to fall apart. It just cornered. It was too capable and there wasn’t the excitement that you would get from a 996 C2, let alone a GT3, which is why those cars have increased in value.

The thing holding it back is that given we live in an EV world with instant monstrous torque, the 996T’s defining attributes are no longer ‘special’, and the 997T is prettier, nicer inside and even quicker, and a bit more fun in the bends, and not too far away in price.

 

[Nayf]

Hmm, I’m not so sure about that. In theory it has everything going for it. Indeed, I (ghost) wrote a feature on their investability in an early Modern Classics getting on for seven years ago.

The problem with the 996 Turbo is that, other than in a straight line, it is a a bit inert. I remember getting in it and at the time it was the fastest thing I’d ever driven. I couldn’t believe the acceleration, the hilarious in gear thrust, the ridiculously short time I got from north London to Stevenage (ahem). Frankly, I was in love.

But then, when I started to take on corners - and the experience started to fall apart. It just cornered. It was too capable and there wasn’t the excitement that you would get from a 996 C2, let alone a GT3, which is why those cars have increased in value.

The thing holding it back is that given we live in an EV world with instant monstrous torque, the 996T’s defining attributes are no longer ‘special’, and the 997T is prettier, nicer inside and even quicker, and a bit more fun in the bends, and not too far away in price.

The other thing is that there are a lot of them. 55 on Auto Trader as of today

 

[cheshiremaserati]

The other thing is that there are a lot of them. 55 on Auto Trader as of today

I have to say that I had my geometry set up for 'fast A/B road use' by Center Gravity in Warwickshire and the camber and other settings I'm running are unbelievable. They have transformed my car. There may be 55 cars but cut it by mileage, manual gearbox, sub-50k and factory X50 and then factor service history and good examples are thin on the ground.

The 997 appeals but is starting to lose the analogue feel, and the Variable Vane Turbine Geometry ain't quite what it's made out to be.

The 991 and 992 are ballistic. But lose the Mezger engine. Great cars though.

As for electric cars and torque - maybe.
But heartless and got no soul - even the Taycan.

 

[cheshiremaserati]

Hmm, I’m not so sure about that. In theory it has everything going for it. Indeed, I (ghost) wrote a feature on their investability in an early Modern Classics getting on for seven years ago.

The problem with the 996 Turbo is that, other than in a straight line, it is a a bit inert. I remember getting in it and at the time it was the fastest thing I’d ever driven. I couldn’t believe the acceleration, the hilarious in gear thrust, the ridiculously short time I got from north London to Stevenage (ahem). Frankly, I was in love.

But then, when I started to take on corners - and the experience started to fall apart. It just cornered. It was too capable and there wasn’t the excitement that you would get from a 996 C2, let alone a GT3, which is why those cars have increased in value.

The thing holding it back is that given we live in an EV world with instant monstrous torque, the 996T’s defining attributes are no longer ‘special’, and the 997T is prettier, nicer inside and even quicker, and a bit more fun in the bends, and not too far away in price.

You need to own one, not have it fir a day or two to write an article. And you'd want a 996 C2 with the chocolate engine? The only watercooled Porsche outside of a Mezger engine in the 996 and 997 is a MY2009 997.2 with the DFI engine, unless an earlier car has had a FULL rebuild by Baz Hart of Hartech with supporting invoice of 6 new Nikasil liners, pistons, big ends, small ends, main bearings and timing chains, and had the Hartech treatment to change the water cooling circulation to address overheating on bank 2. And anything whilst the engines stripped such as water pump and new clutch and maybe change of rear brake pipes (which is an engine out job anyway).

Expect a Hartech full rebuild without the ancillary stuff whilst the engibe is out to be around £14k inc VAT give or take £1k.

In the Porsche circles both the 996 and 997 Turbo cars are desirable. The handling of the 997 Turbo is no different to 996 Turbo. Both are 4WD with viscous coupling. Stopping power is the same with 330mm rotors and 4-pot calipers on each corner. Some go to GT3 upgrade with 350mm rotors and 6-pot calipers at the front, but for road use, I've not seen any need for it.

The 996 Turbo S has the Carbon ceramics - which I also don't see the need for to save brake dust on the alloys. The replacement cost is severe and may explain why many run steel rotors for day use.

 

[outrun]

I've had 2 x 996 turbos and a 997 turbo and that's when I stopped buying fast Porsches. I may go back as i'm older and less demanding now. I found all of them to be inert, once the mad acceleration trick wore off. My Mum could drive one round a roundabout, in the rain, at 100mph and it would be fine. And there in lies the issue that stopped me buying another (and switched me to Maserati, for my sins).

I had 2 x 993 turbos and they are on a different planet from any of the water cooled cars. That's why they are so valuable now. A 993 feels faster, it isn't, but it feels it. It is far more analogue, much more physical to drive quickly, full of noises and creaks, special.

I also had a 996 c4s and actually, i think it's maybe the sweetspot in that range, especially with the switchable sports exhaust.

But I'd still be buying a Cayman R as an investment, over any 996.

 

[DLax69]

I don’t think anyone has mentioned it so I’ll throw in the idea of a Ferrari Mondial, particularly the T, the last of the series with the 348 layout. I think you’d find one of those for £45k. Prices seem to have risen quite strongly and ought to hold up as well as the rest of that marque(?).

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[alastairb]

997 turbo...... My Mum could drive one round a roundabout, in the rain, at 100mph and it would be fine.

Thats kind of the point of them isnt it?
Im keeping mine.


Investment - Noble M400.

 

[Koz]

Ten cars that could rise in value this year - is yours on the list? — The Sun

THE top cars that will rise in value this year have been revealed – is yours on the list?

apple.news

 

[williamsmix]

Ten cars that could rise in value this year - is yours on the list? — The Sun

THE top cars that will rise in value this year have been revealed – is yours on the list?

apple.news

Best to take these things with a pinch of salt. Last year Hagerty rated the 3200 as a potential riser but that hasn't materialised at all, yet ...

 

[zagatoes30]

Most of the cars that I hankered after in the day have gone out of the budget, E30 M3, Audi Quattro, Sierra Cosworth so I am left with the following

Clio Williams, although never happy with the way they kept creating new limited edition versions, Porsche 968 Club Sport, Merc 190 Cosworth and a left field choice Colt Station Turbo (Widebody)

 

[Nayf]

Most of the cars that I hankered after in the day have gone out of the budget, E30 M3, Audi Quattro, Sierra Cosworth so I am left with the following

Clio Williams, although never happy with the way they kept creating new limited edition versions, Porsche 968 Club Sport, Merc 190 Cosworth and a left field choice Colt Station Turbo (Widebody)

Clio Willy is already expensive for good examples. The best are £35k, though one sold for £65k a year ago.
I reckon there’s still room for the 306 GTI-6/Rallye to grow. Clio 172 Cup too.

Of course I ignored my own advice and bought a 145 Cloverleaf with a dicky third gear and a Bluetooth floorpan…

 

[gb-gta]

Clio Willy is already expensive for good examples. The best are £35k, though one sold for £65k a year ago.
I reckon there’s still room for the 306 GTI-6/Rallye to grow. Clio 172 Cup too.

Of course I ignored my own advice and bought a 145 Cloverleaf with a dicky third gear and a Bluetooth floorpan…

We’ll done, once an Alfa fan, always an Alfa fan! Will be a fun car that. Did you find getting parts for the 147GTA just too easy and fancied a real challenge!?

 

[zagatoes30]

Clio Willy is already expensive for good examples. The best are £35k, though one sold for £65k a year ago.
I reckon there’s still room for the 306 GTI-6/Rallye to grow. Clio 172 Cup too.

Of course I ignored my own advice and bought a 145 Cloverleaf with a dicky third gear and a Bluetooth floorpan…

Friend over here has a 306 GTi-6 in that love it or hate it gold colour, we were only discussing when the prices would start to move yesterday

 

[Nayf]

We’ll done, once an Alfa fan, always an Alfa fan! Will be a fun car that. Did you find getting parts for the 147GTA just too easy and fancied a real challenge!?

Well, it was an emotional pull to a specific car, really, that I’ve known off and on for about six years. It’s a bit of a trigger’s broom so not an investment car - I’m indulging in an alternative adolescence where I actually learned a useable hands on skill and earned a proper wage to drop on hot hatches, rather than wasting it on a largely useless degree…

 

[Nayf]

Friend over here has a 306 GTi-6 in that love it or hate it gold colour, we were only discussing when the prices would start to move yesterday

It’s a lot rarer than a 205 GTI. I believe there’s about 250 left in the UK. There are 4x as many 205s.

 

[rockits]

Friend over here has a 306 GTi-6 in that love it or hate it gold colour, we were only discussing when the prices would start to move yesterday

Blaze Yellow oddly named. I had one new in 1997. VRN R929YFC from memory. My colleagues were a little jealous as had 306 1.9 TD hatches instead. The YFC become You Ficking Khant

 

[rockits]

It’s a lot rarer than a 205 GTI. I believe there’s about 250 left in the UK. There are 4x as many 205s.

Cracking cars and not many straight honest unmolested ones either with low miles, low owners and decent history. I've got a silver one although it was my ideal choice of colour but couldn't ignore it at the time.

Bought two cars that day and this GTi-6 was bought on the way back from buying that 4200 GS hybrid thing from Beau in Southend.

 

[gb-gta]

Well, it was an emotional pull to a specific car, really, that I’ve known off and on for about six years. It’s a bit of a trigger’s broom so not an investment car - I’m indulging in an alternative adolescence where I actually learned a useable hands on skill and earned a proper wage to drop on hot hatches, rather than wasting it on a largely useless degree…

One of my mates had a 146Ti, the 5dr version, ages ago. Bet there’s not many of those left.

 

[c4sman]

Thats kind of the point of them isnt it?
Im keeping mine.


Investment - Noble M400.

Had 2x997 Turbos (coupe followed by a cab). slightly modded with a trick exhaust for circa 500 BHP. They were awesome machines, impressive and super capable, but only came alive in the corners at mind bending speeds. That’s why I sold them as the thrills were become high stakes from a licence perspective (not safety). Bought my 997 GTS manual coupe 9 years ago and haven’t looked back. It’s quick enough, interactive at semi sensible speed and practical on the public roads (more so than a GT3). Bonus is it’s valued way more than when I bought it in line with this thread as it seems to have evolved into a modern classic (only circa 100 manual coupes in the UK). Doesn’t matter as I’m not selling but it’s nice to know.

 

[mjheathcote]

One of my mates had a 146Ti, the 5dr version, ages ago. Bet there’s not many of those left.

I had a 146Ti as a company car for 4 years/140k miles, one of the last ones '00 W reg.
Great car apart from a throttle body when new, was reliable...however a few weeks before it went it had a new battery and the relay board behind looked very ropey, and disturbing the battery a few electrical anomalies started, but it was going then for my first BMW.